Can o' Whupass

tyrellian 3151

MAKE THE CORP GO "WHAAAAA?" IN SUPER SLOW MOTION AND THEN SLAP THEM ACROSS THE FACE AS YOU STEAL ALL OF THE AGENDAS, PICK UP THEIR DECK, THROW IT IN TO A BIN AND LIGHT IT ON FIRE.

To play this deck you've gotta be a motherf*cking badass.

Clickless economy and card draw thanks to your high class accommodation (Earthrise Hotel) and your classy career as a high profile edgy hacker celeb (Daily Casts). Make money by selling your crap to your rabid fans as treasured memorabilia (Aesop's Pawnshop), forging BitCoins (Cache) and microtransaction fees (Gorman Drip v1).

Yeah, you might be cycling your viruses just like those other Noiseshop solitaire playing pointdexters, but goddamn it you're gonna do it while riding a tiger on fire across a tightrope while juggling seven live grenades. You're gonna do it with STYLE.

Get down some Virus Breeding Ground x 2, and a Hivemind installed on one of the Progenitors you don't sell. Then command your army of loyal Djinns to start spamming your Chakana and charging Hivemind to 3.

F*ck it - get all of those hippy viruses out, not just one. Stomp on those fast advance losers and make all the Corp douchebags spend clicks and credits trying to painfully score out their agendas while their R&D (and the game's timer) keeps blowing up.

Corp purging you like a little bitch? Virus Ground your Hiveminds back to full Chakana strength with two clicks and go back to doing whatever you're doing and thank them for the two free clicks and another card less on R&D.

Corp starts trash talking you for not running? Kick them in the face by blowing up your Incubators to hypercharge Hive Mind, slam down a Darwin and cruise through their scoring server or double it down with a Medium to access an obscene number of cards.

Or if you just can't be f*cked drop a Hades Shard and give them the finger as you pull all the agendas out and win the game.

Need economy in a pinch? Blow up your Gorman Drip you've been keeping around all game for some ridiculous economy, since the Hivemind counters help you without being spent .

Run out of viruses? Whatchagonnado, cry like a little bitch? Don't be such a pussy - just click up your HiveMind and mill two cards every turn with #Harbinger (or Gravedigger, if you want to be all "square" about it).

Those NBN pencil dicks don't stand a chance with your Imp machine - just keep an empty Imp around and use Hivemind tokens to devour their wussy little click economies and Sansan once a turn.

Weyland jackasses are gonna try to get you to run, because then they get to blow up YOUR sh*t. Don't play their game and their Shutdowns, SEA Sources and Midseasons don't do squat while you're milling away their Oversights and Scorched Earths and talking about their mother (that last bit's really important). When you do feel like it, run their servers with a hypercharged Darwin and watch Blue Sun realize they can't afford to rez all the ice they've put out that you haven't been running. Just make sure you're six strength and you've got credits so their Archers can't touch you. With Darwin on Progen + Hivemind on Progen you can recover from a purge with a 6 strength Darwin for a fourth click run - more if you crash an Incubator because it's for the money shot. Did I just blow your mind? Stop being such a dumbass.

Big scary ice from HB got you down? Archived Memories pissing you off? Don't let it get to you. Keep building up - and deck them out, or edge up your HiveMind to 4-5 and keep charging Darwin and you can cruise through ice when they finally try to score. They're slow so run more aggressively so they have to rez ice, get your rig set up and then threaten to both run R&D and scoring server every turn while milling viruses with your spare clicks.

Jinteki oh please. Caprice is hot but she's gonna do squat for those shmucks when I don't bother running and just trash all their previous traps and tricks straight in to the bin. If I do want to run, use Darwin to gobble up their low strength sentries like a Japanese fishing boat steals tuna. Arigato for those clicks for credits and cards giving me Gorman money, by the way!

Criminals act so smart but they're always running to the Corp's tune. Shapers are clever, but they still deal with whatever the Corp puts in front of them.

Anarch's drive up to their door, light a bag of crap on their doorstep and then nuke their house.

LATEST BUILD

Event (9)
1x Demolition Run
3x Déjà Vu
3x I've Had Worse
2x Sure Gamble

Hardware (2)
2x Clone Chip ••••

Resource (12)
2x Aesop's Pawnshop ••••
3x Daily Casts
1x Liberated Account
3x Virus Breeding Ground
3x Wyldside
Icebreaker (1)
1x Darwin

Program (21)
3x Cache •••
2x Chakana ••••
2x D4v1d
3x Djinn
1x Gravedigger
1x Hivemind
1x Imp
1x Incubator
2x Medium
2x Parasite
3x Progenitor
209 comments
3 Feb 2015 CodeMarvelous

do you find darwin a little dangerous to use as a solo breaker?. I am curious to see how your tests have been going, this deck seems strong but I feel like it could get locked out.

3 Feb 2015 Ultri

The description alone makes me want to punch a baby

3 Feb 2015 tonybluehose

If Maddox played netrunner, this is the only deck he would use to win. Awesome game-plan description, I laughed my ass off the whole way through.

3 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@CodeMarvelous It's SUPER F*CKING DANGEROUS! It's a good thing you've got BALLS OF STEEL, MAN!

But seriously - if you're doing a lot of running, you can always bounce back with Deja Vu. My bigger concern is you should be making really surgical runs. Let them actually spend credits and clicks painfully scoring out stuff and signalling an agenda, and then decide whether it hurts more to keep milling, try to Medium run R&D, or snap up the agenda.

One watchout - a smart Corp will keep advancing traps on you to try to signal a potential agenda with naked or easy to break ice - if you think that sumb*tch is running traps than just mill and threaten R&D.

3 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@Ultri @tonybluehose thanks guys I had a ton of fun writing this one. Need ideas for the next iteration I just came up with that swaps out Gorman (too many clicks) for TriMaf (biker chicks!) and a Chakana for Deep Thought so you can snipe out agendas when you see them every turn like a boss.

3 Feb 2015 CodeMarvelous

Been testing this deck now, won 3 out of 3. in one game i got 3 chakanas down. forcing a purge every two turns or atlas became a 5/2

3 Feb 2015 Finnbarre

The combos are real. Great work man.

3 Feb 2015 Finnbarre

Oh and quick question: typically are you selling Earthrise Hotel with 1 counter left with Aesops or letting it roll for the full 6 cards? Net 1 cr for 4 cards or 4 cr for 6? Or does it depend on the current board state? I'm always torn.

3 Feb 2015 4dd150n

I loved "like those other Noiseshop solitaire playing pointdexters." Perfect.

3 Feb 2015 gawbo005

how is the speed of this deck? I am curious how many turns it can take to get the needed pieces for the advancement lock.

3 Feb 2015 Dydra

We were just talking with some friends today about the Noise Hive deck ... this looks interesting ...

3 Feb 2015 xethebuilder

You, sir, are an evil genius. I finally beat an IT Department deck at its own game using this deck. They dropped IT, got all excited when I couldn't get to it and then spent a bunch of turns placing counters while I set up the combo and then milled them out as they tried to score 7/2 NAPDs. Gravedigger did work with virus grounds. I'll be trying it with your updates now.

4 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@Finnbarre I've gone heavy on draw (3 of Earthrise) because you want to get your combo out STAT. So I'd pawn Earthrise if felt like I had what I needed already (Progen, Djinn (to summon), 2xBreeding Grounds); or if I had another Earthrise in hand and was almost there.

@gawbo005 - because of the draw power you actually get set up quick or get the pieces you need to start Cache cycling which is good too! I'm experimenting with the credit/card draw by looking at throwing in some Injects, since once you have Djinn or Deja Vu you can pull the viruses you need adhoc...however I don't like Inject so much since it can give away your influence splash before you want to.

@xethebuilder YEAH f*ck those geeks man! BREAK THE GAME! Let me know how v2 goes! :)

4 Feb 2015 ItJustGotRielle

You and I are kindred spirits- I've been rocking an aggressive Noise for a while now, but felt like I had to start from scratch now with all the new viruses. I LOVE THIS DECK and an definitely stealing it (and making space for Archives Interface)!

4 Feb 2015 ossa

I'm crying. Tears of joy.

This deck is beautiful.

4 Feb 2015 king_mob

This write up is genius. You got the essence of a griefer deck down to a t. I was scratching my head for awhile trying to figure out the best way to update noiseshop for the new release, but you hit the nail on the head here - STOPFCKINGTHINKINGSTARTFCKINGMILLING

4 Feb 2015 yokhen

This deck looks great, however Swordsman has been really popular lately and I fear this deck might fall prey to it. But otherwise, great deck! Can't wait to try it.

4 Feb 2015 Jashay

Something else that Darwin-only decks struggle with is STR 5+ ICE, as it is inordinately difficult to get back up to STR in less than 2-3 turns. That might sound niche, but the Stellar ICE is pretty gnarly. I know you have your combo, but it is reliant on the cards you cannot tutor for.

Also, Darwin going solo is super expensive. Grail decks, where all the ICE has up to 3 subs, Komainu, Bioroids and Midway Station Grid are all unpleasantly taxing. Especially as you have no ICE destruction

4 Feb 2015 lajcik

I really love that the old green and blue viruses are getting some love with Hivemind :)

4 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@Jashay``@yokhen

Guys, guys, guys. You are not PAYING ATTENTION. Let me break your brains (just kidding! :) ).

TL;DR: Don't play the game the way Corp's expect. The trick to this deck is KNOWING WHEN TO RUN AND WHEN TO BUILD.

An average corp deck has 49 cards. 5 cards at draw, that's 44 cards in R&D. 1 mandatory draw per turn. If you mill 2 cards every turn by either installing viruses or clicking up and then firing gravedigger, then the corp has 15 turns before they RUN OUT OF CARDS AND LOSE THE GAME.

So they need to win in 15 now, they're the ones on the clock.

Now, what if you followed Uncle Tyrellian's advice and installed 3 Chakanas like HE TOLD YOU TO?

Their agendas now cost 3 more credits and 3 more clicks to install (at LEAST one turn more per agenda) AND they need to protect those agendas and their centrals with ICE, have the economy to rez it (if they are Grail they also need Grail ICE in hand) AND they are losing 2 of either ICE, agendas and economy each turn, one of these things will happen:

  1. They'll start trying to score with poor protection. Aggressively run R&D or the scoring server to punish.

  2. They'll lose enough viruses to Archives that you can Hades/Archive run for the win.

  3. They'll kill you because you ran a trap with 5 tokens on it thinking it was an agenda and burn in style.

  4. THEY WILL PHYSICALLY TRY TO KILL YOU IN REAL LIFE BECAUSE YOUR DECK IS COMPLETELY RIPPING APART THEIR COMBOS AND THEY HATE YOU FOREVER AND RUN AWAY CRYING.

On to your specific concerns...

@yokhen If Swordsman is in play (and not milled), then high five them for their good luck and use Deja Vu to recur it immediately after (along with Cache for fun).

BTW - Swordsman doesn't end the run, so just keep going and see what's there.

@Jashay On Darwin's cost - 100% fair comment - my deck is not a deck for run each turn players because running each turn is for those smarmy Criminals.

In terms of getting Darwin back up to strength: remember you're interactions. You've got Progen for purge protection, Cyberfeeders (pumping Darwin each turn), Incubator (token each turn, click/trash to transfer), Breeding Ground (token each turn) and Hive Mind on Progen(best place to put tokens for flexibility) all of which can get Darwin back up 6+ strength pretty quickly if you need it (definitely within 3 turns).

It's not going to reliably handle 8+ STR ice; but if they've got the economy and ICE for that their agendas are probably in R&D or Archives...RIGHT WHERE WE WANT THEM.

You say I can't tutor some of the combo pieces. TRUE. That's why the deck is DROWNING in card draw and clickless economy.

Let me paint you a picture:

You start building up and the suits over at Corp think you're a Virus Mill Solitaire deck. They purge you.

Once they realize you can recover instantly from purges and stop purging, Incubator will start ticking up. With Darwin already installed, it's:

Click One: Trash Incubator on to Hive Mind Click Two: Summon Medium with Djinn Click Three: Install Medium Click Four: Unleash Hell

And if they keep purging, every purge turn you get 2 free clicks while the Corp loses their turn - make it count.

BTW - Cyberdex IS annoying for this deck, but they lose the card and click and you lose two clicks, so who cares?

4 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@ossa @yokhen @lajcik @Dydra @Addison Thanks for the compliments guys. I love this community and really glad you liked it!

@CodeMarvelous love your decks and your comments on the site. Glad you had fun with it - let me know how further testing goes. The trick with purge is to bounce back with two clicks and effectively gain two free clicks...Corps hate that and stop purging, which is when Incubator starts working for you.

@ItJustGotRielle BIG fan of your work mate, so to hear that from you is a huge compliment.

I'm experimenting with -1 Cache -1 Gorman +1 Deep Thought +1 ???. Being able to see the next card lets you decide whether to surgically knock out an agenda or focus on economy/set up, and also gives you intel for when you run.

I love Archive Interface as a card concept but given Darwin's your breaker you don't want to run Archives too many times so I keep dropping it. What's your POV?

Hope you guys link on your version to this deck so we can learn together!!!

4 Feb 2015 tyrellian

Oh @holding thanks to you as well mate. You got it down. It's mill like crazy and then fire uppercut them when they think they know what you're doing.

SHORYUUUKEN!!!!

4 Feb 2015 ItJustGotRielle

@tyrellian Basically my only point of view is this: once a Cyberdex gets trashed it's in archives, and that locks out archives for Datasucker tokens the rest of the game. This is no problem for you, not running them, BUT milling 6 cards and then wanting to check archives for points causes a purge, which translates into a Corp score window (especially with ELP in play). If I ever pop Hades Shard and there aren't enough points in there to win, I wipe my board state, and that's another score window. Cyberdex Suite is a strong enough silver bullet that it seemed worth it to run 2x Archives Interface on that basis alone, let alone the fact that you disarm other archives traps like Shock, of RFG their Jacksons so they can't Jackson them back in, or even remove stupid self-protecting agendas like TFP and NAPD or Fetal from the game. If there's one way to hurt a Corp's deck,it's to RFG the cards they recur, because now they're wasting deck slots on recursion with no good targets. RFG Biotic, Trick of Light, Scorch, Oversight AI... the list goes on. Have fun using Archived Memories for a PAD Campaign, because that'll be your best remaining target.

4 Feb 2015 jeibel

Troll Move = Build with Fester. Once Cyberdex hit archives, run archives first click each turn. Wanna give me counters ?

5 Feb 2015 ItJustGotRielle

Just played this at my game night- mother of god. This deck is insane. It flatout ruins every Corp I play against it. Biggest criticism right now is the very slow set up- I had to spend around 5 - 7 turns on average just getting out the key cards and getting to a point that the Corp stopped playing solitaire and went, "oh..."

I don't think the deck needs to be any more combo-y (fester), if anything you could afford to drop a couple cards and squeeze a third day job and third cyberfeeder in.

Surprisingly, Archives Interface may not be necessary, though I tested this deck as is and did not try it. I'll get back to you on that one. Kudos, fantastic deck.

5 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@ItJustGotRielleRacking my brain to find a way to speed up the set up because I agree with you.

I contemplated Mass Install but find most of the time it's a lack of cards and credits that slow me down (vs. clicks), as well as Tri-maf Contact for 2 credits/click or Queen's Gambit as an alternative for Day Job (and I think a biker chick goes really well with the theme). Cyberfeeders interesting - I kept feeling it was slowing me (2 credits + click), and I'm always installing a virus a turn but may not be spending 3 credits everyt run so 2 felt like enough.

I also am still trying to figure out the tempo of running enough so the Corp doesn't use the 5-7 turn set up to start fast advancing, as I think that's key. If they're trying to rush you need to run with no programs and lots of cards/credits, or get Darwin down quick so they don't get cocky.

5 Feb 2015 ItJustGotRielle

@tyrellian You may be right there. Currently playtesting with 2 Scheherezade instead of Grimoire because with no parasite or Datasucker to benefit, and running Hivemind, I never exceeded 3 memory (because of progenitor, so good!). The unnecessary expense of Grimoire saves 3 credits and is a decent tempo loss for what I get out of it, since I have djinn and progenitor for all the hosting in the world. Scheherezade gives that cache cycling bonus you get from Grimoire, except it's free and can always be Aesop's sold in a pinch.

Playing an aggressive pressure-noise for a while now (Entropy), his strength comes from clickless economy, punishing a slow Corp by drawing and playing cards yet not losing tempo from it, and sometimes even advancing your board state from it. I'm out to bring that into this deck. We're nearly there, we just need slightly better work compression in our draw or credit-generation.

5 Feb 2015 fattyy2k

I love this deck. I have been on hiatus lately and just came back. I have a hard time playing something other than noise just because how much i love him. I had been qracking my brain for AGES trying yo find good ways to utilise the new cards from O&C and I think you have done this. Your description had me rolling and i might just imitate it when playing this deck now. Awesome job man!

5 Feb 2015 Ringworm

How would Vigil be instead of Grimoire? They might be drawing up to keep you from milling it, bonus draw for you.

5 Feb 2015 phasedone

I love this deck idea! I was thinking of making a runless Noise, but this seems just as fun for the upcoming Store Champs.

I made some theory-based changes to it and will be trying them out tonight based on the comments in the thread so far. This is one of my first posts, please don't roast me too harshly for my thinking.

First: From all I gather, the weaknesses of the deck are: slowness, credits, card draw.

Second: There's not a ruling on Hivemind officially that I've found in regards to spending, but to me, the way the card ability reads is that it's always talking about the counters on Hivemind, even though they do apply to other cards. To me, this means, spending a "hosted" counter on a Cache would actually remove a counter from Hivemind, reading the card with the first and last bits like "Virus counters on Hivemind ... can be spent as if on [other cards]." If the official ruling comes down and it's not like this, then part of the changes are going to make less sense.

With those two things in mind, here are my changes and explanations of why:

Removed:

  • Gravedigger / Imp: Great trash combo that plays off each other, but seems a tad out of place with the deck idea. This deck isn't running every turn, so the full use of this is limited.

  • Gorman Drip v1: Seems slow, costs a click and potentially a Hivemind counter and only triggers itself off the Corp's play, to which I say, FCK HOW YOU PLAY CORP, THIS IS HOW *I PLAY!

  • Cache (-1): Similar to Gorman, great with 2x, but I think the influence is better spent on more solid splash econ (see below) and also potentially doesn't synergize with Hivemind per above.

  • Daily Casts (-1): Slow econ, takes 4 turns for 8 creds, 2 should suffice.

  • I've Had Worse (-1): After my additions below, felt it was a bit too much card draw, only nets you +1 card for free (click to play (or a card), credit to play (or a card), then one free card). If you want it for the other ability, it's dead in your hand doing nothing.

  • Aesop's Pawnshop (-1): Needed the influence, but more importantly, what cards are being trashed with it? Chakana, Djinn, Hive, Prog, Medium, Breeding Ground, Darwin = No. You said not to use it on Earthrise. Incubator trashes itself. Potentially Cache, but 3 times = 9 credits and you can get there with what I splashed. An Aesop's late can be good to sell off cards to get in, so left 1x in.

Added:

  • Medium (+1): One of the weakest adds, but with a Surge combo turn, you're surprise hitting their R&D HARD (ALWAYS GIVE IT TO THE CORP HARD). It's another virus to mill with.

  • Surge (+2): Zero cost, great purge recovery, even better Medium/Darwin to set up a nasty combo turn that could win you the game.

  • Sure Gamble (+2): More solid econ, 2 might not be needed. Just nice to set up a heavy install turn, or late game "Gotta get in there NOW" runs.

  • Professional Contacts (+2): This is the main add and the reason for lack of Aesops / Gorman / Cache. As I said above, I didn't really see Aesop's adding that much econ, and card draw still lacking, this is a nice slot in to pump up dead turns, get cards and econ to use the next one.

Honorable Mentions / Things That Might Warrant Testing:

  • Scheherazade: It's Progenitor / Power Shut Down fodder and small amount of econ with no memory overhead.

  • Showing Off: Pretty cheap run event, net of 1 credit cost, can combo super nice with medium for an even nastier medium run (YEAH, I JUST PRETTY MUCH SAW YOUR WHOLE DECK TOP TO BOTTOM). If 2x Sure Gamble is too much, I would add some of these. Counters Daily Business Show if the corp is trying to bury agendas to search for them later.

  • Déjà Vu (-1): I think with less selling to Aesop's, three aren't neccessarily needed, as they will only net you 0 credits on a program (sell to Aesop's for 3, pull back for 2 and install for a click) and nets 2 credits on viruses (sell 2x to Aesop's for 6 credits, pull back for -2, install [the cheapest ones] for -2 [one credit each], install for 2 clicks)

  • Magnum Opus for Professional Contacts: This was a toss up between money and cards, but ProCo won because if you need a card, you get money, if you need money, you get a card, but with Magnum, if you need cards, you're SOL. Magnum might win out if you keep 3x I've Had Worse or if you skip ProCo for something like Quality Time.

I hope I didn't just completely change how the deck works, I don't think I did and I'll let you know how it goes tonight in testing.

Cheers!

5 Feb 2015 mmychal

Having played against the deck a little bit, I feel it needs some Parasites for Kumainu/Tsurugi/NEXT Silver. All of those ICE get stupidly expensive to break with the Darwin. Parasites can insta-trash a lot of annoyances with Hivemind in play, too.

6 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@ItJustGotRielle really smart suggestion with Scheherazade instead of Grimoire; since you're getting purged so often the credit is in many cases worth more than the virus token, and more Aesop's fodder + Power Shutdown protection to boot.

@fattyy2k Welcome back to the game! I've found it extremely hard to play (or even comment on this deck, without unconsciously assuming the character. The description wrote itself! Just remember when playing - always keep the Corp guessing as to what you're doing until your core is assembled.

@Ringworm It probably depends on the kind of player you are up against. Against a mill deck, a lot of players don't draw, in case an agenda is the NEXT card after that and now its at the top and gets milled. Also, since a lot of mill decks also try to get the the Corp to run totally out of cards, a lot of players actually avoid drawing. HOWEVER, it could be worth testing, since if they avoid drawing the agenda density in hand could go up. Hmmm. Perhaps if you use Vigil, you could throw in 1xNerve Agent? Alternatively we could try Wyldside, since it and Earthrise could stack (four cards per turn!) and you have Aesops to get your money back.

I dunno - Vigil just doesn't "feel" right to me, but try it out and let me know? Happy to be proven wrong.

6 Feb 2015 tyrellian

Hey @phasedone, welcome and thanks for posting! I'll try to be nice - this deck gets me writing very alpha because I fall in to character when talking playstyle, but I will make an effort.

Ruling on HiveMind is you spend/use tokens on Hivemind as if they were also on every other virus. However, it doesn't say that other viruses no longer get tokens - so when you install Cache, it gets tokens, and you spend that (if you wanted MORE credits than that, you could also spend Hivemind tokens). Imp still gives you two on install (more with Grimoire), etc.

Let me know how your testing goes, but a couple of notes from me:

ECONOMY I think Sure Gamble in is fine, but I believe you'll find ProCon too expensive; it's a massive tempo hit for what it does even in Shaper (I love it in my ChaosTheory, but always wince when I install). You'll also find it weirdly click intensive, since you have so much clickless/burst card draw and clickless/burst economy. Daily Casts x3 was a choice I fought against but my mates here told me to stop being an idiot and they were right. Remember you get 3 credits at the last round because you sell it to Aesops, so Daily Casts nets you 9 credits and most of your stuff is 2-3 or less and you save clicks - you are not a rich runner most of the game. Gorman Drip is a psychological water drip torture for the corp - they HATE giving you money like that by playing the game; and 1 cost viruses are sweet. But yeah, I think this is the most optional influence splash in the deck.

CARD DRAW I've Had Worse I'm always happy to see, either when I don't need it (damage protection) or when I'm setting up (best card draw for this deck because you can dig hard when you need to replenish your hand or you're looking for something). I know the card draw seems ludicrous, but to be honest I'd like more!

VIRUSES Gravedigger let's you mill even when you don't have viruses and can't get in to R&D - just click HiveMind up and use Gravedigger to click it back down again (four clicks, mill two cards). Not a bad deal!

Imp is up to you but a fair call - I've been seeing a lot of NEARPAD, Industrial Genoptics and NBN shenanigans with undefended remotes, and if I do run I always like having an Imp on hand to trash NAPDs, operations I don't like, etc. - makes the run feel more profitable.

Cache and Deja Vu are PB&J - you wanna be using your cards in most match ups to keep spinning around those cards - install Cache, take money, next turn sell to Aesops (net gain of about 6-7 credits per virus, for one click), then Deja Vu both of them back and do it again. I like Deja Vus also because you're vulnerable to hitting unpleasant ice without a strong enough Darwin (or enough credits to handle all the subs), and this lets you pull stuff back (a lot of 1 ofs!).

2x Medium = Happy Tyrellian. If you get to pull this off with an Incubated Hive Mind you will be accessing about 11 cards, minimum. Problem will be you'll probably only be able to pull it off once. Totally fine addition if you can find the space but don't go too on to your combo at the cost of consistency, And yes, ALWAAAAAYS GIVE IT TO THEM HARD! :)

OTHER Surge is a card that thematically I really wanted to add to the deck because I always shout SURGE when I play it and it fits so well here. However, Virus Breeding grounds actually do the same thing (admittedly one less token), and given Surge needs to be added to a card you added a token to that turn, more often than not you're using Virus Breeding Ground to add a token to Hivemind, then Surging it. Two clicks for 3 vs. two clicks for 2 is not a big enough gain for me that it's worth a slot.

Scheherazade - agree, very smart alternative to test. I like @ItJustGotRielles suggestion of swapping Grimoire for it, because you don't want too many non viruses.

Showing Off assumes you're running R&D twice, and I frequently find this deck only does a small number of EPIC, EPIC runs. But if DBS in play I totally get it. Can I suggest Demolition Run instead? That would get you lots of cards in the heap for later, remove options from the Corp and accelerate the game timer, while still giving you access to the second wave of cards in the next run. After all, when you're running this deck you're already showing off. ;)

If you're thinking Magnum Opus, you might want to also look at TriMaf and remove the Day Jobs - Or try Scheherazade first because I think with that working for you you may not need too much money, and you have Day Jobs for whole turn economy.

6 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@mmychal Hey alsciende, I recognize your YouTube username and like your videos!

During testing I had clone chip in and I insta-Parasited a Tollbooth with no suckers. Corp was NOT happy.

There is a run hard version of this deck (Stimhacks, Crypsis, etc.) that you can build I think where clone chips and Parasites are in, but to be honest I found that the investment of running and facechecking ice, then installing Parasite and running again was way too slow vs keeping the overall game pressure on and installing viruses constantly. It's really intimidating and sometimes causes the Corp to make mistakes.

There is alot of annoying ice for this deck so you will need to cash up before making your epic runs. But if you're not running often NEXT doesn't get a chance to build up; and you can always take net damage on the chin thanks to your recursion/card draw so for the most costly ice there are always options. Archer is the worst because HiveMind and Djinns, so Darwin power runs at 6 STR minimum, 6 credits on hand.

All that said, I have had a 1x of in some versions to tutor against annoying ICE on Archives or R&D that ruin my fun, and Deja Vu means that Parasite can work REAL hard. Something to think about.

@ItJustGotRielle - what think?

6 Feb 2015 Rrowcots

Hey, awesome deck, I am likely to base mine off of this for store champs this weekend. I wanted to let you know that the surge combo doesn't actually work as far as I've been told. Lukas apparently noted that 'moving' is not the same as 'adding', so surge doesn't trigger off a breeding ground addition.

6 Feb 2015 tyrellian

ks @Rrowcots let me know how you do at store champs!

Thanks also for the ruling, I think this makes Surge way too limited for me.

6 Feb 2015 Fl3xbyts

I am a newbie to the game (1 month) and I'm intrigued to exploring Anarch territory. Your deck caught my attention, and I'm curious to know if you could clearly state the desired rig setup. I presume it is following:

MU#1 : Scheherazade hosting Progenitor, which in turn is hosting Hivemind

MU#2: Djinn, which is hosting 3 virus programs (any)

MU#3: Djinn, which is hosting 3 virus programs (any)

MU#4: Darwin

So in the end, there are as many as 8 viruses on the board at one time (Hivemind, Darwin and 6 other viruses). And of course, a number of these viruses get uninstalled (ex: Cache) and re-installed with Déjà Vu.

6 Feb 2015 Fl3xbyts

Also, in your Notes you mention that if we can mill 2 cards per turn, then the Corp is on a 15 turn clock.

How does one consistently mill 2 cards per turn, and how consistently can we rely on this occurring?

I am totally new to Noise and Anarchs. Your feedback (and patience) is greatly appreciated. :)

6 Feb 2015 ossa

Can we talk about Wraparound? That card is a pretty major concern in the NEH matchup since they can just start rushing agendas/SanSans behind them. I normally play 2x Corroder in my Noise decks and, if I want to take this to a tournament, I think I'd have to in this one as well. It seems like it could easily slide into the Grimoire slot. Thoughts?

6 Feb 2015 SalvationsGhost

@Fl3xbyts for the 2 mill per turn its getting a Gravedigger, Hivemind on a Progenitor and at least 2 Virus Breeding Ground. Clicks 1 and 2 are using Virus Breeding Ground to move 2 tokens to Hivemind - (Make sure to NEVER use the last token on Hivemind else Idk how you'll get tokes back on to it, unless you pawn it and re-install it.)- Clicks 3 and 4 are Useing Gravedigger with the 2 tokens we just moved onto Hivemind.

6 Feb 2015 king_mob

Im going to start playtesting this deck this weekend, the only changes made will be ItJustGotRielles suggestion of subbing rahrahs in place of grimoires, and an additional darwin. 2x darwins feels a bit safer and means deja vu can be saved for the other core virus cards. Very hyped about this deck, feels weird not running noiseshop with suckers and parasites, but in a good way :)

6 Feb 2015 tyrellian

Hi guys just a quick watch out. Remember that Scheherazade and Djinn do not stack effects-so you will want to use them on root installs separately, djinn for programs you want to avoid memory issues with and on schez when you have tons of mem, are installing cache or have another zero cost to sacrifice for power shutdown

6 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@Fl3xbyts my esteemed brother in destruction @SalvationsGhost has guided you correctly. My only build is you should start doing that once hive mind already has 3 so that your chakanas are still slowing down the corp.

6 Feb 2015 Dydra

wait ... wording wise does Hivemind fill up Gorman Drip v1 without spending the tokens on Hivemind ??

If you have 3 or 5 on Hivemind and 0 on Gorman, that's still 5money, without wasting the tokens on hivemind? Because the wording says " take 1c for each hosted virus counter and not * hosted counter = 1 credit* like the Cache " ?

6 Feb 2015 king_mob

@Dydra Yes id say due to the wording on Gorman the counters are not spent from Hivemind when you trash Gorman, so id say better money than cache BUT its a click, which is a click that could be 3 more chakana tokens (with all 3 chakana and hivemind and virus breeding grounds.....set up is a bitch).

6 Feb 2015 king_mob

@tyrellian yes you have to be selective with Schez, i think for cycling round cache and then pawning is the main point of it, as Rielle is on point - its the extra credit you were getting from Grimoire without having to shell out 3c first.

6 Feb 2015 Glitch

Can I just say that I already hated playing against Noise. Now, between this and SlySquid's Provoke2Purge deck, I'm ready to rip my face off.

Great build and amazing write up!

6 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@holding is bang on the money (geddit). I found gorman does let you use hive without spending tokens but in practice it was 2 clicks for about 3 credits and not as good as cache. I'm open to other suggestions for that last influence but I do like it in because some Corp players are paralysed by it and it makes them either purge you aggressively or they don't gain credits/draw which is fine. If I replaced it right now I'd go with Try Maf because a man this badass needs 2 credits per click and a biker chick babe. I'd also swap day job for queens gambit.

6 Feb 2015 us0rman

nice to see Parasite and Datasucker free Anarch decks!

6 Feb 2015 ducky0913

@tyrellian Great deck idea, loved your description! A question I have is: Why would you Aesop Cache? With Hivemind installed, whenever you fill it up, you are also filling up Cache (which automatically refills due to Hivemind - unless I'm mistaken). So you are taking from Cache one turn and on your next turn, viola!, they're back.

6 Feb 2015 Ringworm

@ducky0913 i think it's because it's 3 credits for the aesop pawning. then you recur it to mill another card (the main point). those extra points with hivemind will be there regardless.

6 Feb 2015 king_mob

@ducky0913 not gonna work bud. Cache requires you to spend the tokens.

6 Feb 2015 Ringworm

also what @holding said. i hit submit too early!

6 Feb 2015 ducky0913

@holding don't see where it says you have to spend the tokens. Hosted power counter = 1cr. So take all the credits during your turn and when your turn comes around again (barring a purge), those credits are back.

@Ringworm I get what you are saying regarding the recurrence for milling, but Cache is a clickless economy with Hivemind. As long as there is a counter on hivemind there's a counter on Cache.

6 Feb 2015 king_mob

@ducky0913 Not entirely sure what your missing here mate. Cache reads "Hosted Virus Counter: 1c" and Hivemind reads: "(and can be spent as if on them)". So you have to spend the counter from Hivemind to trigger the effect of cache.

6 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@ducky0913 I'm afraid @holding is right, and you do have to spend the tokens when you use Cache. Think about it without Hivemind in play - you get three tokens, and if you don't actually have to spend the tokens, and the Corp doesn't purge, then every turn you could use it.

Also think of any card which spends tokens (Data Raven, for example) - the notation "Hosted power counter" = xxx means you've gotta spend the token.

6 Feb 2015 ducky0913

@holding got to head into a meeting right now, but I want to discuss this a bit more.

6 Feb 2015 king_mob

@ossa darwin will be up to the strength of wraparound pretty quick, imagine a worse case scenario: 1 counter from cyberfeeder, 1 from VBG. 4 turns pass while you mill and solitaire, then hit them and wrapround costs 2 to break.

6 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@ossa again @holding beat me to it - I don't see Wraparound as that big a deal if your cyberfeeders and VBGs are up and out AND incubator (because that creates a need to purge every few turns or you can start breaking Wraparound easily). The purge gives you two free cards and makes them draw a card; use that time to mill some more.

If you're not using the Grimoire slots for Scheherazade then I'd recommend you put Parasite in instead of Corroder, that'll take care of your Wraparound problem (Parasite gains 1 token a turn, and then you charge up HiveMind a little and it'll get to 8 strength really fast), and you can recur it if you get bothered by any other ice and installing it mills a card each turn.

6 Feb 2015 king_mob

@tyrellian you realise you have probably made noiseshop a thing again with this build and this write up? Can we give this a sexy name yet as i will be remiss saying at the next store champ "yeah im playing the noise arse build"

6 Feb 2015 ducky0913

@tyrellian Okay, I might be a bit confused here. Let's say, for example, I have Hivemind with 3 counters on it, and say, Cache and Darwin out. Would it be correct in saying that both Cache and Darwin have 3 counters on them, since it applies to all viruses. Hivemind doesn't diminish until purged. (and can be spent as if on them); with that in mind, no actual virus tokens are removed from Hivemind itself, but the "ghost" viruses would be used and then replenished.

Or I may be completely misunderstanding the card.

6 Feb 2015 king_mob

@ducky0913 sorry to be harsh mate, but yeah your misunderstanding the cards. Cache requires the hosted virus token to be spent to use, hivemind allows you to spend tokens from hivemind as though its on any other installed virus.

6 Feb 2015 philgb

@ducky0913 Some cards like Darwin or Medium gets their power from the presence of virus tokens. They combo nicely with Hivemind as the don't consume the tokens. Some other cards like Cache or Datasucker gets their power by using the tokens. You can know the difference easily. If "hosted virus token" is in bold, it means that it is a cost to activate something. You need to spend 1 virus token from Gravedigger (as well as spend a click) to use its ability. But Parasite lower the strength of the hosting Ice by one for each virus token on it (including of course the ones on Hivemind) without spending them. Hope it makes the interaction more clear.

6 Feb 2015 ducky0913

@philgb Yes, thank you for the clarification. I believe you understood what I was trying to relay.

6 Feb 2015 Fl3xbyts

What is your inspiration of using 3x Earthrise Hotel instead of Wyldside?

If one wanted to add 3x Parasite to help get through ICE on runs, and as protection from Swordsman, what would you suggest removing? I presume that you don't feel the need for Parasite... do they not do more (potentially) than an Imp, and Gravedigger?

Since you're not running much and trashing installed cards, do you feel like Gravedigger is pulling its weight?

6 Feb 2015 Fl3xbyts

If you have a Scheherazade and a Djinn installed, where do you put your programs (Gravedigger, Chakana, Incubator, Medium, etc)?

6 Feb 2015 ducky0913

@Fl3xbyts you would host those programs on either Scheherazade or Djinn.

7 Feb 2015 king_mob

@ducky0913 sorry what exactly were you trying to relay?

``@Fl3xbyts` well you have options is the thing. Obviously on an ideal world cache onto rahrah, hivemind onto djinn, but deja vu makes the whole thing fairly fluid, I dont think your stuck with one play with any given draw of this deck, which is why its so cool.

7 Feb 2015 Snake Eyes

Glorious build!

Straight to the front page of NRDB's hall of fame.

One of my buddies and I were talking about such a build the other day. Yours looks much more polished than what we had going on.

Well done!

7 Feb 2015 SalvationsGhost

I went back and dropped the Deep Thought and Re-added the 3rd Cache and Rachel Beckman I know its 8 to play, but thats a extra mill a turn or even a extra token moved or click for some money. Thoughts?

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@Fl3xbyts - Earthrise way better than Wyldside because you don't lose a click (you need those for installing/economy/drawing more!) and because you usually need burst draw to get your setup, after which you don't need cards anymore because Djinn can tutor you.

On #Gravedigger - gravedigger can leverage Hive Mind tokens - click up for two on Hivemind, gravedigger twice (spending the HiveMind tokens you just added), and the corp has milled cards with no credit spend from you. You can combo it with Incubator as well for a quick rush if you're not running. Imp's the same, spend tokens from HiveMind if you stumble across something and you want to deny the corp.

By contrast, Parasite's an awesome card but only useful if you're running more than this deck typically does, and running with a more reliable breaker suite. Since you gotta hit the ICE first to rez it before you can Parasite, if the ice is nasty than you could be looking at losing cards and programs. And if you already COULD break it, then why do you need the Parasite - you're in and Mediuming a lot of cards/scoring the agenda already! The Corp should be able to access a lot less of its resources given the milling pressure on it already, so you don't need to destroy ICE like the other runners do, if you're playing well, about ~30-40% of their ICE is in their Archives (based on standard Corp ice density).

I designed this deck to deliberately break convention that the Runner has to always...well, run. Most games will have you mill out the Corp or score from Archives, possibly with the Hades all at once. And not running shuts down a ridiculous number of cards (SEA Source, Power Shutdown, etc.). So Parasite becomes a card most of the time I'm not excited to see - tho a 1 of for a really annoying scoring server might be handy. Perhaps the Imp could go for it, but I love that little bastard. Hmmm.

On your question on the Daemons (Progen, Schezerade, Djinn) - ideally you put Cache's on Schez, programs you wanna keep long term like the Chakanas on Djinn, and viruses that will have their own tokens across the game, like Hivemind and Darwin on Progen.

The only MUST do though is ALWAYS INSTALL HIVEMIND ON PROGEN!

7 Feb 2015 xethebuilder

@Fl3xbyts I think you're having a little trouble with the deck's core concept. "Not running much" is an understatement. Try: Running less than 5 times per game (probably closer to 2-3). You're really only running for really deep R&D digs with a medium, darwin and a massively loaded hivemind or to snipe a slowly advancing agenda. Otherwise, the deck just uses virus installs and the gravedigger combo to mill the corp out while adding 2-3 advancements to any agendas they try to score.

In this build, parasite is therefore of limited use as you won't be running through ice enough to make it worthwhile. In contrast, imp can always be refilled with hivemind/breeding grounds and allows you to completely destroy asset economies/sansans. Likewise, gravedigger is one of the vital pieces for the "gravedigger combo" (described somewhere above) to mill 2 cards a turn when you run out of viruses.

A 1 of parasite could help but you don't have the tools to install it at instant speed, the only way to make it useful against swordsman (as you don't want to have to reinstall darwin and run again).

For Earthrise Hotel v Wyldside, wyldside costs clicks which could be spent drawing/tutoring for combo pieces. When you achieve critical mass to bounce back from purges in 2 clicks (2 breeding grounds, progenitor, hivemind), having a wyldside out also decreases the number of clicks you gain each time the corp purges from 2 to 1. In short, the deck has a bunch of click intensive cards and you don't want to add one more w/ wyldside.

7 Feb 2015 xethebuilder

Better yet, just read tyrellian's ;)

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@Snake Eyes thanks mate! I'm so glad so many people liked it.

Holy crap just realized you are right and it's Hall of Fame in 3 days! Wow.

For any of you playing the deck, if you are making videos please link to it here so people can see the deck getting played (as I realize from the questions it's hard to explain) and we can also continue refining the playstyle!

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@xethebuilder That's hilarious. We made exactly the same points! I guess my work here is done. Drops mike Table flip Moonwalks out

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@holding I'm open to suggestions on changing the deck name; something sticky so that people start using at Worlds and we can all virtually high five eachother for changing the game.

Can o' Whupass made me giggle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG59WqrAN3M) but I'm not attached to it - can I crowdsource some ideas?

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@SalvationsGhost did you play test with Deep Thought? How did it go? I feel like the intelligence of knowing when you're milling a 3 pointer would give you more confidence when you fire up the Shard, but losing the third Cache is a bit of a concern for me.

Like I aid the Gorman influence splash can be swapped with other things. I did look at Beckman and I think she's good. I'd personally be concerned about adding another expensive build up item to the rig though, as to get it installed will reduce your pressure on the Corp every turn, milling 2+ cards. Even with Cache cycling I've found I rarely end a turn with that many credits, because I'm installing 2+ things every turn - it's why I'm looking at TriMaf for credit efficiency vs. just more clicks. That said, the drop of Grimoire from @ItJustGotRielle might be a credit savings that takes away that problem).

It's why I also am iffy on Day Job right now - you're not running so unlike other runners you're not pressuring the Corp on credits and defences, you're pressuring him on cards.

If you do pop her in, do let me know how you go. And you might want to consider Queens Gambit over Day Job (since with your Chakanas, stuff that gets installed will only be an agenda if they start advancing it that turn or the next). That way you can Aesops, Queen's Gambit, Beckman. do stuff.

Would love to find out how you, @CodeMarvelous, @ItJustGotRielle and @holding and the rest of you guys go with your tweaks this week! Keep me posted and if you stream/video post the link!

7 Feb 2015 SalvationsGhost

@tyrellian I did a get a few games in with Deep Thought, but I felt I was really running to low on creds and knowing what I was milling, while nice, I feel the extra Cache and extra click if i get it out early enough can speed up the death clock. And even lets you mill a card after using a Day Job if you have the tokens out.

7 Feb 2015 king_mob

@tyrellian haha mate can o 'whupass is a fine name for the deck, I was only half serious, im sure the archetype will pick up its own tags. You and @xethebuilder make some EXCELLENT points about how this deck is meant to be played, and you really made it clear on why the includes of parasite or wyldside are not needed. Your not running, thats true, but your not turtling either. So sacrificing clicks will hurt. After reading your explanations I actually think this is a very interactive deck, and one that I think requires playing aggressively, it just takes a path of less resistance (I.e less runs) to achieve corp grief.

7 Feb 2015 fattyy2k

have you tried using Queen's Gambit in place of Day Job? I have always liked the card, but it is very very risky.

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@fattyy2k Been suggesting it as an alternative in a few of my posts above. I think it could work, but when you need money it's also nice to be able to do it regardless of whether the Corp has something down unrezzed or not.

Alternatively, you could try -1 Cache +1 TriMaf and drop the Day Jobs in favor of Sure Gambles.

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@SalvationsGhost Makes sense I think Deep Thought is not needed given the influence needed.

7 Feb 2015 rezwits

I don't know how you are going to get this Progenitor tho. Sucks cause there is absolutely no "Tutor" for this card and I guess the odds say you will see it 2 out of 3 games? So 1 game in a tourney you just loose to not drawing Progenitor and a Purge. But those are good enough odds for your running. Chakana and Hivemind are boss :D.

7 Feb 2015 king_mob

wooot! deck list of the mo'fucking week ya'll! Well done @tyrellian mate you idea seems to be catching on.

I've play tested a bit this morning and i think this is a very advanced deck to pilot, getting pressure on while at the same time building up the virus cascade is key, and if you dont apply enough early game pressure the corp will just score out. They need to fear you! In nearly all the games iv played so far i havent needed I've Had Worse for its damage protection, iv used it for card draw. So im playing around with a version that subs Inject in place of I've Had Worse and Sure Gamble in place of Day Job. I never genuinely needed to be on more than 10 credits, but i did need the clicks.

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@rezwits With the card draw the deck gets I haven't actually had an issue getting at least one in hand for Hive Mind. You absolutely should wait for it before you drop Hive Mind tho, since a Hive Mind installed in root should be instantly purged by the Corp.

While you're waiting for Progen, set up the rest of your configuration and prioritize card draw (I've Had Worse, Earthrise). You can install viruses and click to draw with the rest of your time.

It's hard to get a bad draw with the deck - just a draw that makes you have to think a bit more.

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@holding Woot! WE did it guys! I came up with the idea, but it's everyone whose commented that's helped make it popular :).

I've used I've Had Worse 100% for card draw in my games too. Didn't like Inject because you don't want to accidentally give away your Chakanas or lose your progen to the heap, because then you're digging for Deja Vus and you've also given away your biggest surprise.

Agree with Sure Gamble over Day Job. It's a smart way to save clicks since you usually don't need monster credits (I think I just loved the art from Day Job too much not to include it in my first draft... :P).

Also agree on it being an advanced deck to pilot. You have to understand the various ways your cascade can chain beyond the core set up, and look for ways to use those interactions to keep the Corp from feeling safe to start fast advancing. Imp Sansans, run R&D, virus mill - you should only play passive when they're in the Chakana Chokehold (sounds like a wrestling move).

7 Feb 2015 king_mob

Yeah gone back from inject to IHW. +1 QT as well in place of gorman.

7 Feb 2015 ItJustGotRielle

@tyrellian congrats on DotW! :) driving from Ohio to Indianapolis for a store champ at the moment, bringing OaC-updated Keystone andyour deck with the changes we talked about! I have opted to keep Day Job- timing is everything. I Day Job the turn before they should purge, so they have to decide if it's worth losing a full turn after I double my credit pool. I'll let you know how it goes!

Names:

Pandemic (if you know the board game this name is a perfect fit!)

Legion

The Trashening

7 Feb 2015 SalvationsGhost

@tyrellian I am also bringing this deck with the changes i mentioned to a store championship today! Looks like the virus is already spreading .hahah -Ghost

7 Feb 2015 TerminalHope

Love the deck, could do without the racial slur...

7 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@TerminalHope - what? Where? Very sorry if I offended - I'll take it out immediately if you can let me know what bothered you! Am Aussie and Eurasian so tend to be more playfully politically incorrect than I should (hence all the insults in the write up itself :)). Sorry again!

@ItJustGotRielle thanks mate. Best of luck with the deck and safe driving. I love all the name suggestions too, @holding and I also came up with Virus Cascade. Big fan of Pandemic from the old days too.

7 Feb 2015 fattyy2k

Havr you thought of possibly running demo run in here? I am a big fan of demo run/medium

7 Feb 2015 coffeepezaddict

When I describe the Anarchs as Sid Vicious's faction of choice, this is what I mean.

Nice work on the description, and "God save the queen--the fascist regime."

On the flipside, when I describe the Noiseshop game as one of absolutely no interaction with the corps, this is also exactly what I mean. I'll bet that it's pretty effective, but I also have played some pretty boring matches like this.

7 Feb 2015 TerminalHope

@tyrellian - I'm sure it was unintentional! It's the bit about Jinteki, though I understand some folks aren't aware how that usage is pejorative. Thanks for being cool about it.

I'm really looking forward to testing this deck this weekend, as I tried and failed a few times to build a decent Noise virus-rig like this. Will let you know how it goes!

8 Feb 2015 Horse85

Somebody mentioned it being a death clock, I really like that for a name. But that might be because of Dethklok.

Anyway, after reading this whole discussion, I feel like one thing is missing: what are the deck's best and worst match-ups? Or is the very nature of the deck one that doesn't give a shit about match-ups in the first place?

8 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@fattyy2k - I think you can definitely throw a 1 of in demo run (have suggested it a few times above), but for me it's a win more card and I'm not sure you can fit it in without dropping something else that's more critical. Let me know if you have any good ideas though.

@holding has also put in a second incubator so the deck can SUPER run R&D (trash incubator, trash incubator, Demo Run, run would be epic); Two incubators in play lets you keep up the pressure and run more often. Perhaps that could be an alternative to the two Scheherazade?

@TerminalHope thank YOU for letting me know! I believed I've fixed it (and also corrected the Japanese language bit too!). Let me know how the deck performs for you and have fun!

@coffeepezaddict Great observation. I've actually noticed that the best thing about the deck is it's so different it actually promotes some really non standard play from Corps. They go back to bluffing out agendas with risky defences, advancing multiple things at once and trying to starve me out and score lots of agendas in one turn for the win, or trying to turtle and build huge towers. It also encourages a lot more traps to be in deck, and gets us back to a lot of Core set mind games. Making the Corp have to adapt to you (vs. the other way around which is more typical), was one of the coolest discoveries I made.

I also discovered you have to watch your opponent carefully, and try to guess what they're trying to do to defend against you (especially if your draw is not good).

Net net - the interaction is less on the table and more mental. Which I agree some people might not like, but I've had some great poker style games with the guys at my meta. :)

@Horse85 - Death Clock. Very metal! :) I'd say this deck does not like traps because you can bluff a trap as an agenda on me really easy. But the deck protects itself from bad match ups a lot because of how disruptive the milling effect is...and how you can get a good sense of what the Corp is trying to do by checking Archives and seeing all the cards/influence splash.

But like I said to @coffeepezaddict, this deck worse match up is a smart opponent. The games I've felt challenged were when I was against smart, adaptive players. If you're milling too much the'll start tryingto score with the Chakana penalty (counting on you not wanting to run), and if you are running he can starve you by throwing a lot high sub ice at you and building combo pieces.

8 Feb 2015 chrispedersen

ChopBot is a cheap solution for additional draw and/or tag removal. Using Djinn you can always tutor your chakana's. There is no real reason for 3 of them - your influence better spent else where.

Your second aesop could just as easily be a hostage, allowing you to play a second connection such as Katy.

Now, just asking if you considered: a). Salvage. b). Astrolabe. Noise is relatively slow against NEH and can have difficulty with PE/ RP.

8 Feb 2015 wormmonda

Have you considered HQ pressure like Hemorrhage or Utopia Shard?

8 Feb 2015 chrispedersen

Also, with the amount your're not running phermones may be a different deck. Still the credits from hivemind are available even after the virus tokens have been wiped out, making it that HQ runs pay for themselves.

8 Feb 2015 tyrellian

Hi @chrispedersen - Looked at Chop Bot 3000 but since I'm assuming most of the stuff I trash will be for Aseops I didn't need it; I can always click to draw whereas with Aesops I get 3x as much for my click. Don't need to worry about tags because I'm not Siphoning and not running often enough.

3 of Chakana is absolutely core to the deck - the three credit, three click tax is what I want, so even decks that aren't fast advance are affected. I want to punish the Corp with a one turn, 3 credit delay every time they score an agenda, which gives me more time to get it, mill it out, or access R&D. If you still feel there is no real reason, try testing it out in a game. It's brutal!

I tried Katy out in a previous version - she's way too slow given I need to be installing 2x a turn. I'm happy with Aesops, Daily Casts and some burst economy for emergencies.

Astrolabe is interesting but I don't have two influence to spare (one at most for Gorman), and it only works against horizontal decks which are becoming more balanced. Quality Time would make more sense.

On NEH: This deck actually doesn't mind corps drawing lots of cards since it promotes the milling; if you are up against NEH pull for Imp with Djinn and trash things every turn with Hive Mind/Breeding Ground's infinite supply - no drip economy for them, which coupled with the Chakanas will really disrupt their whole strategy.

It LOVES PE because their one pointers are costly to score and I don't need to run at all, so most of their traps don't function.

RP is also vulnerable because Archives and R&D are the only servers you care about in that match up, and their slow set up time means you can get your core in place before they start scoring.

Salvage can only be advanced when rezzed, so you'll get a free run. After that, you'll only have to engage it when you're prepared to break it/deal with it/it's match point. I'd say if they get it out (you didn't mill it) then you can ignore that server since they've spent so many resources advancing it, installing it and rezzing it that they're vulnerable elsewhere.

Looked at Phermones (I've been wanting to make that card cool for a long time). But yeah you're right - different deck, probably coupled with Account Siphon and a much more tag me/run hard deck with DLRs. Can't wait to see the next round of viruses that have constant status effects on it!!!

The thing about this deck is that it ISN'T Noisehop...it just looks like it is. The Chakanas and the surprise Incubator -> HiveMind make it an extremely dangerous deck that either slows down the game (for more virus mills) or if ignored, blows up suddenly and makes huge runs. It's not easy to pilot but man, is it fun!

8 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@wormmonda Utopia Shard is a good splash instead of Gorman, but I'd worry about economy - you're losing 3 credits and a mill to gain some HQ pressure/scorched protection. I do like it, but you're not going to get in to HQ that often to install for free, so it's a real tempo hit.

Hemorrhage was in my first mental draft of the deck, but given it's two virus tokens it frequently felt more expensive than it was worth. I put in Gravedigger because it has an even chance to be disruptive, helps accelerate the Death Clock, and bothers the Corp way more (because they play good cards when they get them, so cards in hand are waiting for other combo pieces/board state change, and this deck doesn't change board state for Corp, except for the worse). Again, I like the HQ pressure you're trying to drive but the current deck structure is so focused and powerful on 3 victory conditions (huge runs, milling, and decking out Corp) I don't know what to cut anymore.

8 Feb 2015 gumed85

Love the deck! Tyrellian, do you think that replacing 3xAeshop for 3 Sure Gambles would work? I mean, Sure Gambles are never a dead draw, as opposed to the 2nd and 3rd Aeshops, you free influence, get 4cr right away. Of course that over the course of time Aeshop probably gives you more credits, but can also slow you down if you draw it late. Maybe a mix of both?

Also, removing the 3x Aeshop frees up influence for a possible clone chip + Inject combo. With so many programs, its possible that Inject/Clone Chip/Sure Gamble package will give you more card draw and credits than your current decklist.

Your opinion will be appreciated!

8 Feb 2015 tyrellian

Hi @gumed85 interesting comment and great questions! (Also thanks for the compliment on the deck :)).

The deck actually runs only 2 Aesop's Pawnshop (not 3), and I would not swap them out for Gambles. Rationale:

  1. Biggest reason is I like clickless economy so that I can use clicks to install more viruses/programs/resources or draw cards I need to assemble my core.
  2. I also run pretty poor, so the 5 credit requirement for Gamble can be a little steep.
  3. This deck has lots of Aesops fodder vs. other decks: 0 cost programs, Cache, Daily Casts, Earthrise, even a key virus if it's the last turn), so I tend to get money every turn.
  4. You also tend to stop drawing cards once your core is assembled (you can use Djinn to tutor everything you need once you're sitting on 2xVBG, 1xDjinn, 1xAesops, 1xProgen), so you're not likely to see both copies.

You could try swapping them out for Day Jobs if you think you need the clicks more than the credits (4 for one click vs. 8 for four is a better deal), but @ItJustGotRielle is making a strong case that Day Job is better if you time it for when the Corp is not poised to score though. I think you could make an argument for both, or a mix.

I get the argument of Inject/Clone Chip/Sure Gamble, and I think it's probably a viable way to go. However, I do worry that

  1. with so many programs (and 1x ofs!), Inject could throw a ton of what you need in the heap and you'll spend a lot of time trying to get them back in to play with your chips or your Deja Vus when you have just drawn them with Earthrise/I've Had Worse/regular clicks and installing them straight.
  2. Programs in heap also turn off Djinn's tutoring ability, which lets me use my stack as a sideboard the same way other Anarchs use Inject to create a program sideboard in their heap - making Clone Chips irrelevant unless I want to instantly pull programs in response to Corp activities or mid-run. None of my programs really work like that (a surprise Chakana would be cool).
  3. Since the heap is public you also can signal to the Corp what you're doing which could get them to start aggressively advancing agendas - if you mill a Chakana they'll know something's up.
  4. Finally, with Maxx's star rising I'm confidence Chronos Project will become a thing a lot of Corps include, making leaving things in your heap dangerous. :(

If you do try the Inject/Clone Chip/Gamble build let me know how it goes. If you do, I'd definitely swap in a Parasite. It was the hardest program for me to cut from the deck but I did it in the end because I dropped the Clone Chips (I was blowing up Tollbooths in early tests and it was awesome).

8 Feb 2015 Empty_World

I really fucking like this description,this is what anarch stand for,light those corps on fire!Why do I need stupid credits when their database has nothing left for me to run?

8 Feb 2015 gumed85

@tyrellian I just want to thank you for your analysis and time!

8 Feb 2015 ItJustGotRielle

@tyrellian Bear with me on this:

Drove 2 hours to Indianapolis for a store championship, playing this deck with a few changes and Keystone with a few anarch techs. Made top 8 cut, (26 players I think?), lost 1st elim (vs top seed), won 2nd elim, then lost 3rd elim and was dropped, 5th place.

1) Draw continues to be the primary problem. Earthrise is great, but I needed draw so badly that I would not Aesop it on its last counter, meaning I spent 4 credits for 6 cards. I did it twice per game on average, so 8 credits for 12 cards; almost all the credits from 2 Casts. You say Wyldside is a no-go because it takes clicks, but I spent 12-15 clicks per game drawing (draw twice, then play two cards) for Progenitor, Djinn, or Aesops, the three core cards of the deck.

2) At a high level of play you simply cannot "never run". Doing so is basically rolling a die because it entirely comes down to "Which of us has better draws?"

That being said, I will be switching from Earthrise to Wyldside, and dropping 1 Chakana for a 3rd Aesop. Consistency is key for combo decks; every important card in this deck is tutorable except Aesop and Progenitor. Wyldside will be perfect for this, since with a third Aesop it will be easy to turn off when you find Djinn/Progenitor/Breeding Grounds, giving you back the 3 credits you spent.

Needing to draw and play so many cards, you must be able to float 6 - 10 credits to threaten remotes with Darwin, or be able to punish R&D the turn after they Biotic an Astro. Doing so requires poke runs to keep them poor and Imp control of their assets EARLY. So once again, work compression from Wyldside is key. Without 2 Virus Breeding Grounds, a Corp has a FA window the turn after they purge, which you have to be able to punish.

3) Day Job is weak. After playing it in real competitive matches, I always wished it was something else. I used it twice when I absolutely had to (for lack of better econ) but always wished it was a Liberated Accounts or even Sure Gamble.

8 Feb 2015 ItJustGotRielle

(Sorry had to post early, phone was at 1%)

On to changes:

For the store champ I went to, I dropped 2xGrimoire in favor of 2x Vigil for the extra memory, since in testing it was difficult to reliably draw Progenitor early, and also because of the free draw perk, which this deck needs as much of as possible anyway.

Dropped 2xCyberfeeder for 2xScheherezade. This was a great decision as it pays for itself immediately, whereas CF takes 3 turns to pay for itself, and this deck has enough tempo hits already.

Changes I plan to make: 3xWyldside instead of 3x Earthrise 3xAesop and 2xChakana 2xLiberated instead of 3xDay Job 1xParasite added with space made

The store champ was great for testing in a competitive setting and worth the drive. Going into eliminations I played top seed, who was completely undefeated through 5 rounds of Swiss with NEH FA, and nearly won. At 5 points dug for 9 cards on R&D after trashing all 3 Jacksons but saw no points, trashed Shard for no points, and him scoring out next turn. This deck will absolutely be a top-tier control deck once we finish tuning it. Cheers!

8 Feb 2015 chrispedersen

I have played your deck.

Fundamental problems : no way to tutor progenitor or aesop.. Little payoff for complex progenitor hovering combo.

I agree with switch to schere and Vigil. However chop bot will allow you extra draw. And when you finally do draw the pieces you aesop it.

I find chakana unconvincing. You are spending 2 clicks after a purge to cost the Corp 1. And you have no Avenue to attack via darwin.

To the contrary deep thought compliments gravediggrr. A top deck agenda with a hive minded gravediggrr can always be trashed. Non agenda top cards require the Corp to draw to score, alerting you to a desire to score and hastening the mill.

Which compliments gorman. Finally it's costing you too much to mill don't you yhink. I think you need more 1 cost viruses.

8 Feb 2015 TerminalHope

@tyrellian - just a heads-up - tested the deck today in approximately five games, and won 4/5. Additionally, I found this deck really fun to play, so thank you for your list.

So, my observations.

Regardless what some here are saying, Chakana is an MVP of this deck, without question. In most of my matches it proved itself an incredibly versatile and infuriating opponent.

I found some holes in the deck, primarily that given the current popularity of Blue Sun and Curtain Wall, Darwin will never really be able to reach Strength 10 to break an outside Curtain Wall, so they will always or almost always have recourse. Obviously this is just one piece of ICE, but it bears mentioning. Also, the new Weyland ICE Wormhole sits at 7 Strength, which is inconvenient.

Options? Well, would be excellent to have D4v1D on board, but you can't tutor it in any real way, so maybe not the best option. I considered a single Crypsis because you can charge that via Incubator, and it gives you an out if you find yourself locked in that fashion. Not sure which way to go on this.

Also, I'm keen to include a Nerve Agent. I had a few games where that could well have won me the game, and the synergy with Hivemind is obvious.

I'm considering dropping the Gravedigger and Gorman Drip (as much as I love it) for some of these changes. We'll see how it goes. :)

Thanks again!

9 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@ItJustGotRielle thanks for reporting back on your performance, and congrats on a great run with a weird deck. :)

  1. You are making a good argument for Wyldside and I'm going to experiment too. There could even be a case for 2xWyldside, 1xEarthrise, but I think for competitive play 3x for consistency is probably best.

  2. I do agree that Cyberfeeder was another point of opportunity in the deck build, as I always felt a bit reluctant to play it when it hit my deck in recent testing. Schezerade is another gives me credits while I've got it, and a 3 credit burst when I need it card. BUT there's no argument behind it for me but I have this weird feeling that this deck has enough Daemons (6 already) so there might be something else worth putting in here instead. Perhaps the 1x Demo Run + 1 Incubator (or Medium) is more threatening instead, especially if we swap in better economy for Day Job?

  3. I do think you need a console for the number of programs, and Vigil was interesting as I said. As a Corp player it's easily countered by just playing one more card, and your deck is not a threat to run deck that would consistently punish that. Grimoire is one more mem for 1 more credit, and it's nice to get an extra token on install of your viruses (especially Darwin and HiveMind). I think this one is a pretty even split...Fantasy Flight has to give us a virus that can let Anarchs draw, and then Grimoire is a no brainer!

  4. I wouldn't swap Aesops for Chakana, she's just too punishing over time if you get the chokehold out early. How about 2xAesop 1xHuman First, or another econ resource like Armitage?

  5. Agree with dropping Day Job. Liberated Accounts hurts to install though, and only pays out 2 credits in the third click. Armitage pays back immediately, or gambles since you are trying to get the deck to play with a higher credit threshold. Or (and I keep suggesting this), drop Gorman for TriMaf and if you have 2 credits per click forever...

A lot to think about it and thanks for sharing all your suggestions! :)

9 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@chrispedersen Thanks for sharing your thoughts mate.

I would articulate the challenge we have right now as being pure card draw vs. tutoring, since technically I have no way to tutor 3 critical cards: Djinn (as my virus tutor), Progen, and Aesop.

Not sure what you mean by the "complex progenitor hovering combo"? There's only one strong combo with Progen and HiveMind; the rest of it is Shutdown protection, Aesop money, or some extra memory.

I'd love to see the results of testing Chop Bot; I always look at it and feel like I'd rather be just clicking to draw till I get Aesops and getting 3 credits for it instead.

You need to get all the Chakanas out to see the benefit of it. When it's 3 credits and 3 clicks and it costs you two clicks to recover, you are costing the Corp an entire turn and 3 credits, and if they do purge your two clicks bring them right back where they started. This disincentives purging (since it's basically: draw a card and lose your turn, and give the Runner two clicks).

Darwin on Progen post purge is at 1 STR, +1 at start of turn for a credit. 2xClick to move a new VBG token to Hive Mind, trash an Incubator for another credit. Darwin is at 5 STR immediately after a Purge if you need it, and you'd have HiveMind at 4 tokens.

6+ ice would still be shut out, but you'd get that the very next turn and the Corp purged you so they would, again, still be facing the Chakana delay.

I was looking at Deep Thought/Gravedigger earlier on in the comments (-1 Chakana, +1 Deep Thought). I think it's REALLY good, but I don't think it's better than 2 influence spent elsewhere, since you will want to basically mill whatever's on the top of R&D if you can.

I've actually found in testing Gorman to be not one of the strongest cards given the number of times you'll get purged. It rarely ends up netting you more than 5 credits (with the HiveMind bonus), and 5 credits for 2 clicks is not as good as 6 credits for Cache with one.

I think you can start putting in more 1 cost viruses but that would take away more powerful viruses that actually threaten, and this deck does need to make runs occasionally to keep up pressure as @ItJustGotRielle pointed out.

9 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@TerminalHope - great points and awesome feedback. Glad you had fun!

  1. Yep, Chakana is core, no question.
  2. I think a D4v1d would be good to include as a surprise threat for when you REALLY need to get in (and they think you can't), and it's better than Crypsis for sure. Aesops and Deja Vu mean you can also cycle it in an emergency.
  3. I've said before that Gorman Drip truly is the least valuable card, so I think a build without it and with a Nerve Agent will give you some pressure on another server. @ItJustGotRielle - might be worth trying, especially if we slot in a Demolition Run...that way you can devastate either server.
9 Feb 2015 chrispedersen

Yeah sorry, typing on my phone it autocorrects.

You have no tutor for progenitor - so the result when you finally do establish it must be stellar. In this deck, its progenitor hosted on djin or scherezade, hosting a hive mind.

So the pay-off is that after spending three clicks and 6 cash installing vbg, you can spend 3 more clicks to bring darwin up to a 5 str. Which is why I said that you have no avenue to attack - the corp can score out safely behind any kind of str 6+ ice. Hadrian, firewall, curtain wall, archer, susano.. the list is long.

I guess my point is that the pay off using darwin is not there. After all that work you get to spend 2 cr per routine with a deck that doesn't have a strong economy. Two hiveminds are stopping you cold and opening a scoring windo for the corp.

Darwin, in fact, does nothing for you that a parasite wouldn't do cheaper and better, in general.

There are a lot of great features of your deck. The ability to use the virus tokens on medium OR nerve agent OR Gravedigger or Chakana is a GREAT feature.

I just think that you will lose winnable games with darwin as your only breaker. (Swordsman, lots of routines, high strength, for example). And certainly the current meta is moving that way with the space ice.

In your deck as constituted I agree with the replacement of Gorman. I was only saying if yous witched to deep thought Gorman would be more useful.

Speaking generally, 1/4.5 cards in a corps deck are agendas. Milling 4 will in general get you one agenda - except that to score it you need to get past corp defenses of JH. So on a pure mill deck 15 cards worth of milling can be obviated by the play of one jackson. So random milling is not an effective strategy, in general.

Much better is using the Hivemind viruses as fodder for medium and HQ. S Things which are enabled when you have a breaker which is a threat. o is Milling a known card from the top of r & d, which also suits a more passive approach.

Anyway, I think I came across as overly critical. Not meant to.

9 Feb 2015 pants on head

Also of note, I've started seeing more and more Jinteki decks (and a couple non-Jinteki decks) running a couple copies of Cerebral Static as a meta call in general, which seems it would just hose this deck something hardcore.

9 Feb 2015 thebriarfox

I feel like this engine is begging for Pheromones.

9 Feb 2015 chrispedersen

yea, me too. I tried, but couldn't get to work.

9 Feb 2015 Fl3xbyts

@tyrellian: Thank you for providing such a detailed explanation and piloting guide to my questions! Very very helpful, and appreciated!

I've been playing this deck and loving it. I've been test piloting it with a friend, who plays HB Glacier. Out of the 3 games we played, I won all three through virus-milling and using Hades Shard.

Thank you for clarifying that this deck maybe runs 2-3x per game. That's how I've been playing it. I run on whatever server they leave me able to run in the first turn or two, then when it's defended, I dig for the Progenitor+Hivemind combo (with Virus Breeding Ground). By the time I have them online, the Glacier deck has already ICED up their servers 2-3 ICE deep, and so I never run again and just mill.

I look forward to playing this deck against lighter-ICE decks (NEH FA, Jinteki), where servers are more porous and able to be ran on with Darwin.

@holding: I love your deck as well. Smart tweaks!

9 Feb 2015 Fl3xbyts

@pants on head: hmm, yes...Cerebral Static would be very scary. With Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe using Itinerant Protesters and more Runners being released and played with good game-long abilities, I wonder if Cerebral Static is something that more Corp decks will (or should) start to pack 1-2 copies of.

10 Feb 2015 fattyy2k

So i play tested this swapping the grimoire for Vigil, Imp for Nerve Agent, and Cyberfeeder for Chop Bot 3000. The deck worked fantastic in its card draw and i drew into most things quickly... other than Virus Breeding Ground. It was alot of fun but needs a way to deal with Swordsman. Its a major shutdown. The Chop Bot 3000s werent even needed for card draw. Day Job is a card you use during windows and is very good for those moments. This deck is a blast to play! Good job overall. I am gonna find a spot for Demolition Run

10 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@chrispedersen No worries mate, I'm here to learn and get feedback! :)

If you host Darwin and Hive Mind on Progen, Darwin starts at STR 2, and then you use its start of turn ability to get it to STR 3, then your three clicks for Hive Mind/Incubator can get it to STR 6 before a click 4 run.

One assumption on your milling thought experiment though is that only agendas matter. When you mill that many cards you're also milling Corp defences, economy, and Jackson too. So I could get unlucky and mill everything but the perfect counter ICE for my Darwin, the Jacksons he needs to cycle back agendas, etc., (BTW that's why Hades Shard is a must have), and that would SUCK big time. But how often will that happen? And when that happens, will I still be able to find a point of weakness in his central or his remote that I can exploit given that he's losing lots of his deck unplayed?

All that said, I take your point on economy being weak, and it would be nice to have a better breaker and about Parasite being really great in this deck - I'm actually working on that in v2! Do you have any suggestions?

@pants on head - Cereberal Static does not turn off Chakanas or Gravedigger - I think if they played that on me, I'd start clicking up and spending two tokens on Gravedigger per turn to just keep on milling until I felt like I could score an agenda.

10 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@fattyy2k Glad you had fun. Did Vigil get you a lot of cards? Will have to try it out.

I like the swaps you've done but would drop the Chop Bots to get your Imp back and a Demo Run.

Here's my POV on Swordsman - it's still a splash for most Corps, and with your milling you may not even have to face him most games. However, if you do, remember it's just on one server and change your focus over to the other centrals - that's one of the best things about your +1 Nerve Agent, now you can be painful to all 3 centrals and the remote.

10 Feb 2015 fattyy2k

@tyrellian thats kinda what i am thinking about Swordsman the more i consider it. I am still not sold on Imp in this deck, but it is still a great toolbox virus and it mills one. Vigil did actualy net me at least 6 cards. It also made him install assets unprotected to keep me from drawing on all turns. It puts another tempo hit on the corp. I will keep it in my variant. I am still looking for better econ, but i will continue with Day Job for now.

10 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@fattyy2k interesting point on vigil that I will have to think harder on. I am recommending imp for you because you should think of it as an always on mini Demo run for your medium and nerve agent play and will punish naked remote installed and a lot of builds like near pad and industrial genomics. On day job alternatives I am trying out Liberated Accounts but you can also look at queens gambit, Armidale, trimaf contacts and sure gambles.

10 Feb 2015 fattyy2k

@tyrellian i like day job right now because it nets me more for fewer cards than sure gambles and it doesnt have the restrictions of queens gambit. Post about your experiences with liberated. I will throw imp in and see how i feel. Maybe the playtesting will show me the light :)

11 Feb 2015 CapAp

@tyrellian you should give ChopBot a go, I think it is mitigating some of the problems ppl are seeing with the Earthrise/Wyldside conundrum. That said, Im running 2 Wyld, 2 Chop, 2 Aesop and Im calling it "Chop Shop".

11 Feb 2015 feelsgoodbatman

You make Anarchs proud. I <3 you, lol.

11 Feb 2015 FilthyMcNasty

I just have to say... This is one of the best deck descriptions I've ever read. +1 to you sir. (I guess also because the deck is interesting and good, but holy sh*t that description.)

11 Feb 2015 umchoyka

@tyrellian Fantastic deck, thank you for posting. Chakana is just sick with Hivemind and Progenitor.

I haven't read through all the comments yet, but I had an idea to add in 3 D4v1d, 2 e3 Feedback Implants (sacrificing a Chakana, Gorman Drip v1, and Hades Shard to free up influence) and make this a RUN MORE deck (tentatively named Runny No(i)se). The idea being that D4v1d breaks anything 5+ strength, and Darwin breaks everything 4 and under (even immediately after a virus wipe) with E3 to make it cheap. I haven't tested any of it yet but I will soon and let you know how it goes.

11 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@feelsgoodbatman fist bump

@FilthyMcNasty thanks man - it was so much fun to write!

@umchoyka I have been cooking up a much more aggressive run deck in my mad scientist lab. Some advice as you test:

  1. Do not sacrifice Chakana and Hades Shard, as they are core to the deck frame. At the most, I'd scrap Gorman and Hades, but being able to get in to Archives whenever you want is devastatingly powerful and has won a number of games for me.
  2. Instead of 3xD4v1d, consider some Parasite. It's another virus, making it tutorable and mills a card, will reduce STR of ICE to be within Darwin range (if your Darwin is STR 5, then your Parasite will be -4 or -5!). It also destroys high sub ICE that you might not want to bother breaking. Yes, you'll have to face check ice first and that might hurt. But you're an Anarch baby, and most painful ice is STR 5 or less anyway!
11 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@fattyy2k BTW, Liberated is worth a try, it gives you amazing "credits when you need it" and a good first turn seems to be click for credit, install Lib, click Lib, do something else - it gives you emergency credits for the rest of the game (while you're trying to get a Cache cycle together) and something powerful to do whenever you have a click to spare.

12 Feb 2015 benhosp

Haha I didn't realize how good Gorman is with Hive Mind until I actually tried it out.

12 Feb 2015 brainstorm

How do you deal with an early Accounting?

12 Feb 2015 slimag

Hi! first of all - great idea for a deck - i was searching for deck using Chakana and Hivemind and this deck blew my mind. I've tested it with one difference yesterday - 2x Sure Gamble instead of 1x Grimoire and one Day Job as thet are less click-heavy.

I've found myself missing either draw or econ depending on the game. I've won 2 out of 5 and one of the lost games i've started with Sure Gamble, 2xProgenitor, Hivemind and Chakana. It apeared perfect and then i was getting all other econ cards but nothing reliable to draw - not a single Djinn, Earthrise (one of my favorite cards lately) or even additional Chakanas.. i've ended up with all caches, gorman, imp and medium (almost useless without Darwin)..

so things that i planning to do to hopefully improve deck:

  • add 2x Wyldside for passive draw (possibly for one Earthrise and one I've had worse),

  • Amped Up to get better turns (for downside of wyldside)

  • Kati Jones for Daily Casts for some econ that stay on board

  • Sure Gamble 3x because they got only one credit less than Day Job but if you already have 5 then you can use rest of your turn. And because they are useless with Wyldside

-

12 Feb 2015 slimag

... i've submitted comment before end...

  • as mentioned numerous times - add 2x Scheherazade for more credits out of caches and Gorman (and other reasons obviously)

few questions:

have you tested with more Gorman Drip v1? they tend to be great for econ in bot early and late game and spending Déjà Vu on them seems like a waste. Is Wyldside a good choic or lack of this one click will hurt viruses to much? i think it will be great for early game and then just use Aesop's Pawnshop when you get your rig ready. Same question about Kati Jones - is she worth having? have you played with Surge?

Great work ! hope to see development of the deck :) and i hope this will not become new andromeda meta - i hate to see 90% noise tournament ;)

12 Feb 2015 FilthyMcNasty

@benhosp It doesn't work like you think it does. Hivemind says "Virus counters on Hivemind are considered to be hosted on all other virus programs for the purpose of card effects (and can be spent as if on them)". Which means that if you try to use Gorman Drip v1 with counters on Hivemind, you're removing the counters from Hivemind.

12 Feb 2015 aphid

That's the thing right @FilthyMcNasty, you're not spending the counters on Gorman, you're just trashing the program. So you're not removing counters from Hivemind.

12 Feb 2015 slimag

@FilthyMcNasty why yould you remove counters from Hivemind when using Gorman Drip v1? you only loose tokens from Gorman since you need to trash Gorman but you gain credits equal to amount of virus tokens on both Gorman and Hivemind. reason being you dont have a cost of any virus counter (as on Gravedigger or Cache for example)

12 Feb 2015 FilthyMcNasty

@aphid @slimag Ooh.. Whoops. Sorry. Was thinking about a different interaction.

12 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@brainstorm - I think this deck deals with Accounting pretty much the same way every deck does. I'd probably trash supplementary viruses, since I can always bring them back with Deja Vu, and focus on getting a quick agenda stolen.

@slimag Thanks for the compliment. I am presently testing Wyldside instead of Earthrise; it's a one click cost which does suck, but for consistency it's probably the smart choice, and it is nice to get the money back with Aesops.

Amped Up could be a good choice too, if you have the slots, but it's a win more card for me vs. stuff you really need.

Kati Jones I did test and felt was very slow to build up. You might want to try Liberated Accounts - early testing is showing me it's pretty good, and overall more consistent burst than Sure Gambles, and great to have on the board to kep you cashed up.

For more explosive power runs I've been fooling around with Parasite and Nerve Agent vs. Scheherazade and Amped Up but I think they are good alternatives to try. Let me know how your testing goes!

12 Feb 2015 benhosp

@slimag Seems like Stim Dealer would be better than Amped Up for dealing with the downside of Wyldside, especially since we've already got ways to trash it if the side effects start to damage our brains too much.

12 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@benhosp``@slimag Too true. But Amped Up gives you two clicks all at once, and I can see the value of that when you're making an explosive run (Trash Incubator, Trash Incubator/Gorman, Summon Medium, Install Medium, Run).

12 Feb 2015 CapAp

@tyrellian This deck's hilarious and awesome, but in my heart of hearts, I think the virus package has the ability to make Noise a top-tier deck. I've been loving the discussion so far, and your involvement with people's ideas. If you'll permit, I'd love to do the same. Here are the changes I have made. I haven't lost with it yet in this form, but that may be due to my local meta. If you try any of them, let me know, they should be able to exist separately from the virus package, which is literally perfect.

-3 Earthrise, +3 Wyldside. Like @ItJustGotRielle said, I spent so many clicks drawing the hard way that I HAD to do this.

-3 Daily Casts, +3 Data Folding. Do you think I'm crazy? I did, until it actually worked like a maniac in every game. I don't know about when you play, but I never go above 3 mem with this bastard. The Progenitors are invisible and everything else is hosted on a Djinn. Caches still get hosted on Scher because you're going to sell them the next morning (which you can trigger before checking Folding). im excited about this change. Get two of them out and 2 free bucks a turn with Noise starts to make your opponent poop a little.

-2 Grimoire, +3 Scheherezade. Again, @ItJustGotRielle is right, this is just a sensible substitution. Probably don't need 3, but since all they do is host Cache and I can sell them, the extras are not dead cards.

-2 Cyberfeeder, +2 Chop Bot. The Cyberfeeders are overkill. Money has never been a problem for me, not in one single game. The problem is getting to those untutorable Daemons, which is a draw problem. Thus, Chop-Bot. He also works as a pseudo-3rd Aesop (lets me turn off Wyldside or remove a Cache so that Data Folding will pay me).

-3 Day Job, +2 Demolition Run. Add my vote to the group that says Day Job is weak in here. The tempo loss is not something you want to let happen and besides, YOU'RE KICKING THAT CORP'S ASS AND YOU DON'T DO THAT ON THE 9-TO-5 M@THERF!C#ER! Like I said, money hasn't been a problem at all with the Cache recursion and the Data Folding. I haven't missed it. A good Demo Run lets you end the game 3-4 turns faster than you would have otherwise. Put that son of a bitch on a 12-turn clock, man!

-3 I've Had Worse, +3 Scrubbed. This is a local meta call, everyone runs corp currents around here. Ii helps Darwin out, I guess; but it's really only in here as a cancel for Housekeeping and Cerebral Static. Even ELP can cause you heartburn on your glory run turn. This was the hardest cut to make as I really like the draw even if I don't need the meat protection.

Let me know what you think. It runs way less economy than yours did, but I think it's faster and scarier. The prime weakness is still the fact that you are spending your days in Draw City until you can get to both a Progenitor and Djinn. I mulligan if I don't start with at least one Data Folding or Wyldside in hand.

12 Feb 2015 tyrellian

Hey @CapAp thanks for the comments mate. I haven't updated the deck to reflect all the feedback and inputs from everyone, but I think I agree with you on a lot. Loved your tweaks and I'd love to here how the play goes. Again, always keep your meta in mind when you take my suggestions, as no deck works in every situation.

  1. As I said above, I think I agree with the decision to switch of Earthrise for Wyldside for added consistency. Losing the clicks are tough, but there's nothing worse than being in your aforementioned "Draw City".

  2. Data Folding is a really creative choice! I have found that I sometimes root install viruses when Progen doesn't show up on time though, and 3 credits for 1 per turn hit is tough to take. My heart's probably still with Daily Casts because it yields 9 for 3 in less turns (remember to Aesops Daily Casts for 3 instead of 2 on the last round), and you're gaining your investment back fast (I realize Noise needs quick money as you usually need credits for a burst run or to survive and keep installing while you're waiting for Aesops). Once you have Aesops in play and Djinn/Deja Vu you can usually start Cache cycling.

  3. I haven't been using Scheherazade yet in favor of more active viruses/events. I could be wrong here since I know it's an Aesops target and a great one credit per install boost though, but the temptation to use those slots for Nerve Agent, Parasite or Demo Run is hard to resist so I've usually gone with that. Haven't missed the extra credit yet, and I still find myself drawing a Progen and wishing it was something else.

  4. Dropped Day Job a while back for other economy sources, especially necessary if you use Wyldside. If you've got Demo Run (and I like Demo Run in my latest version) I'd definitely see if you can squeeze in Nerve Agent or a second Medium to REAAAAAALLY ruin someone's day (since Medium tokens stack, you'll get Hive Mind x2!). I personally run Demo as a 1 of though, since you'll only want to see it and play it with an epic Incubator fuelled run once per game (you've got Imp for smaller runs!).

  5. Chop Bot - I think I'd rather keep I've Had Worse instead for burst draw (or use your one influence for Express Delivery). For me, it just comes down to preferring to trash for 3 credits vs a card, which I could get with just one click. I've Had Worse gives you more chance at the card you want , and also is really useful in the current meat and net damage heavy meta.

  6. Scrubbed makes sense, especially given your meta situation (though I'd recommend 2 of at most). I'd try and squeeze a Parasite in to take advantage of weakened ice and be scarier!

12 Feb 2015 CapAp

@tyrellian All good points as well. I'm going to keep using Data Folding as long as it keeps working for me, but you are definitely right about going down to 2 of Scrubbed since I don't really care about the effect. I put two Demos in because I hated seeing it early; you can get a little clogged before Aesop/Djinn are out, and with two in the deck I don't mind letting it go.

Thanks for the reply, this is the most fun deck I've seen posted in a while and I'll be keeping tabs on it!

13 Feb 2015 Kroen

I'd like this deck better if it was Earthrise>Wyldside and Memstrips>Djinn

13 Feb 2015 umchoyka

@Kroen Djinn is a tutor though. Memory isn't a problem, and you're not really worried about losing Djinn to something like Power Shutdown since you'll have many other installed cards costing 2 or less. If you're getting hit by program destroying ICE, then you've made a mistake.

13 Feb 2015 benhosp

You know, Logos is actually a pretty good way to "tutor the untutorable".

14 Feb 2015 Locke

So I made this deck and I'm sorry but it sucks. Its so easy for the corp to have an agenda with advance counters on it. On their next turn all they do is say "purge counters" and then they score their agenda because the Chakanas are no longer active. The rest of the deck is very cool and the deck does have lots of interactions within itself but I still felt the deck could use some tweaks. Gorman Drip is ass because people use Howard Jackson to draw cards.

14 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@Locke you are right it's awful. Whoever created it must be a total moron!

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@tyrellian What are you pawning in this deck other than Cache, Casts, or an empty Imp? It seems like nearly every card you wanna keep in play or they sac like Incubator and Gorman.

14 Feb 2015 Locke

Its Cache or Casts, but thats why the deck only runs 2. I do like using pitching 2 caches to get them back with dejavu to play them again and have my opponent mill 2 more cards. I switched out the Day Jobs for Sure Gambles and its better. Sometimes losing your entire turn to get 8 credits is gay. Magnum Opus is better for shapers because they can take whatever they want instead of having to lose a entire turn. Like I said before the only cards that were worthless in this deck are the Chakanas and the Gorman. Replace those ASAP!

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@Locke That is simply not enough to warrant inclusion. Sure, you will see your Caches, but not all your Casts on average. Consider this, Aesop's is gonna cost you a click and a credit--whenever I am weighing econ, I take into account the click to install has a conversion value of 1 credit. This means you are breaking even on the first Cache. Sure, with Deja, you can net more than the 6 for playing all 3 copies, but you aren't always gonna find every Deja, nor playing it ONLY for Cache in every game. Long and short, there are much better ways you could spend this influence than for a Pawnshop that has six targets.

Daily Casts is one of those card that I just don't get why people play it. You literally net the same amount of credits by clicking 4 times for money--3 to install and the click makes it 4--AND it takes you 4 turns to do it. Yes, you can sac it with Aesop's to net 1 more, but this card is not net 8. By this same logic, Data Folding takes awhile to pay itself off. Sure, they are click-free, but by the OP's own logic, in a turn that should only last 15 turns max, the notion of getting full value out of these, OR using an action to install this for such a small return, seems rather counter-intuitive to me.

Since Gorman is causing mills AND has such rad synergy with Hive Mind, it seems like a more logical influence and card slot, enough so to warrant the full 3. They are reinforcing the deck's strength, not potentially diluting it by installing cards with such small returns.

Another card to consider would be Mass Install, esp. with any card like Wyldside. This will get you some click efficiency and potentially speed up this clock. Not saying the deck should play 3, but it is a very efficient card in a durdle deck like this that often is just installing on most of its clicks.

I have to say, I played a deck like this in the quarters of a Store Champs Top 8. I was PE and mulliganed into 4 agendas and a quandary. I dropped the Quandary and a house of Knives in the remote and took a credit in case of Siphon. While my opponent sat there installing Progentitors, Aesops, and Caches, I managed to scored 5 points out, never drawing a single ice beyond Quandary. My hand was 3-5 Agendas the entire game.

I quite handily won by purging at the right moment to stop the Chakanas from working, scoring out the last 2 points the turn after, as he set himself up to get a Darwin rather than use his turn to reload Chakanas. I was confident I could race, leaving my hand open, because decks like this make the runner put on blinders. They are so focused on assembling their mutli-card combo, which usually takes many turns to do so, that a smart corp can abuse these windows to win the game. Not saying it always works this way, but, with Jacksons to shuffle back in key cards, I think you can race this if you know when and where to apply pressure. After all, this style of Noise has existed for a loooong time now. I would argue this deck plays LESS viruses on averages than some--though it can lean on Digger.

Just my thoughts. Seems like this thread is spotlighting best case scenarios and not the law of averages.

14 Feb 2015 Ringworm

I have to agree with some of what @travisrchance has to say, especially about the 'best case scenarios'. Took this to my weekly meetup, with some slight modifications. My first game i had the combo up and running by turn 3. I lost- not because of the deck, which would have milled the guy out in the next few turns, but because i did the shard in a glory attempt to end it quickly. I got 5 pts with the shard, but he was weyland with Government Takeover. And that was still sitting in R&D.

In the 4 other games I played with it, it seemed nothing was firing properly. I was starved for money. As travis said, you get blinders trying to get the everything working, and a smart corp player will see what you're doing in the first few turns and then run away with it if you can't get things working in time.

Now, I believe most of my problems with this deck can be attributed to lack of pilot skill and being on the bad side of the luck curve these few games. There's potential here, and it's actually quite fun to play, as long as you don't paint yourself into the solitaire corner and just work on the combo. I'm trying to figure out what else i need here. Perhaps a mimic to deal with a devastating Komainu. Perhaps more economy, even if it means going over 45 cards. I don't know yet. It's close to breaking open, but not there for me yet.

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@Ringworm Some of these issues were preexisting with this type of strategy, as people have long been trying to just loop viruses and win the game. This deck strikes me as less successful at doing this for a few reasons:

1.) The deck isn't playing a whole lot of viruses to be honest. 13 is relatively low all things considered.

2.) Not playing Parasites seems like a real oversight, as they are one of the cards that benefits greatly from Hive Mind. Of course, these only work if you are running, but that's the next issue. There should be more program diversity. You don't need 3 Chakara; you need 1 or 2 working to be efficient. You have Djinn to fetch them. 3 is overkill. One of these could be something far more critical to addressing things like econ.

3.) By not running, you are not using one of the best things a runner can do to a corp: make them spend credits to rez ice. This means that while you scrabble together the multi-card synergies, they absolutely can layer deep servers where they deem fit. There is no pressure, therefore they can just shift their priorities to whatever server is under attack, making Darwin expensive, and often a reason to purge the following turn.

4.) It seems like you want to keep the majority of your viruses around, meaning Pawnshop and Deja just aren't as powerful as they are in other decks that are trashing Suckers, Imps, etc. I am wholly unconvinced of Progenitor. It requires drawing and playing it in the correct order. Sure, it saves you MU, keeps your hosted virus at 1 counter, but it just more tempo loss in the end to install it and try and sequence it with the hosted card in the correct order. It doesn't mill a card. It MU it saves you is nominal at best. It just strikes me as rabbit hole logic. Sure, maybe 1 or 2, but then you may not even draw them. I would rather lean on breeding grounds and incubators and play something that actually impact the game more. It's not like Hive Mind HAS to be a peak performance every single turn, right? You just need it to be up and full of viruses at specific points in the game.

5.) The estimations regarding econ are simply not true. Daily Casts is not net 9. It is net 4. It cost you three to install. The click to install could be used to simply click for a credit. At best, with Pawnshop, it is net 5. There are just better cards out there.

Further, Pawnshop seems very weakly supported in a deck that is sentimental about the majority of the cards it plays.

The argument against Day Job due to tempo loss seems somewhat ironic to me I suppose. This deck in no way abuses tempo. Day Job is very efficient for its output. Yes, since you are stringing half a dozen cards together for synergy, it does make that a tad more difficult, but at the end of the day it just is a big econ boost.

I think Sahasrara is just the right card for this deck. Over Feeders and over Pawnshop. You just want to play a ton of programs, of which MORE should be viruses, but we already illuminated that. This card accomplishes this for you and right away. If not this, play 2 Lucky Find over Pawnshop. I think you can EASILY drop a single Chakara so you could play a full set of Lucky Finds or Sahasrara.

6.) More on tempo. The math for 15 turns is not spot on. This makes A LOT of assumptions. Let's be honest here, Jackson is in the majority of decks. This alone adds 3 more back in, one of which will prob be a Jackson. If they play a second copy, well they just added more than 25% in terms of turns to this assumed 'clock.'

It is worth mentioning that a lot can happen in 15 turns for the corp, esp. when you are dropping many non-virus cards for your engine, not milling them as aggressively as you could/should be. Like I said, Noise Shop is something we have seen. I do not think this deck is aggressive in terms of running or milling than Noise Shop.

I have a Noise deck I have been playing for some time now. Rather than sit back and durdle, I make sure I can run, run, run as needed. I treat the milling via viruses as a byproduct of playing cards that support me being aggressive. I too play a single Gravedigger (this used to be 2 DLRs forever) and I have successfully milled corps out incidentally about 20% of the time.

I understand the notion of the deck is to turtle and durdle, and I appreciate the list and commentary going on for this deck. But the fact remains: people love to pipe dream in this game more than Magic, which has a more deterministic meta. People will post about their 'undefeated deck' that took down a Store Champs, but they forget to tell you only 10 other people showed up. My goal in challenging some of these ideas/comments made in this thread is not to troll or knock someone's hat off. I simply want think it is a fair and completely reasonable thing to point out some of the inconsistencies that are obvious to me as a player. So, I hope I am not coming off as a giant ass-beast that is proverbially shitting in anyone's cereal.

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

(Please forgive the errant typos; I attempted to write this while bouncing my screaming 8 month old at the same time.)

14 Feb 2015 Locke

Sahasrara is much better choice over Chakana. Awesome comments Travis!

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@Locke I think you drop 1 Chakana and the 2 Pawnshops. Pawnshop simply doesn't do enough, esp. in a deck that wants to build a critical mass engine. So, something like this:

-2 Pawnshop, -2 Feeder, -1 Chakana +2 Sahasrara, +2 Gorman, +1 Mass install (I guess?)

At least the Gorman's mill and CAN combo with the Hive Mind. You could just play a 3rd Sahaswhatever so you guarantee you hit one earlier in the game. This one card will help with a lot of the econ probs, as the majority of cards are programs. It would also allow Mass Install plays more easily for click effeciency.

I would not go down the Wyldside hole. It lets you drop Pawnshop and lean on I've Had Worse for burst draw early, which would also let you dig from turn one while offering some defense against running on Jinteki and such.

I have no concrete suggestions for how to build this deck out, as it I take issue with a decent amount of the card choices and play conceits, but I do think for sure you can improve it and veer it toward something more consistent and competitive.

Play. Parasites. For. Gods. Sake.

15 Feb 2015 xethebuilder

@travisrchance

There is a reason why people play daily casts. It's one click for +5 (6 w/ aesops) credits. Yes they're spread out over several turns. But it's the literal equivalent of a card that says:

Event, Cost 3, If you are not tagged, gain 5 Credits. Gain 6 instead if you have "aesops pawnshop" in play.

Because this would be OP at 0 influence, they instead made it pay out over time. But unless it is trashed by the corp or the game ends in the next 4 (3 with aesops) turns, you are making serious money. The only downside is you don't get it all immediately and the turn after suffers a bit of a tempo hit as you're still down 1 credit.

15 Feb 2015 xethebuilder

^Oops. I can't count. That event should be "gain 8/9 credits" :p

15 Feb 2015 xethebuilder

@travisrchance I'm getting sidetracked, though. To respond to your other questions, the issue of parasites is addressed at length elsewhere in the comments. The summary is: @tyrellian acknowledged that they are a strong synergy with hivemind but that this deck doesn't have the tools to use them or a strategy that requires them.

The deck is playing enough viruses to present a viable extra milling threat alongside the permanent mill option of virus breeding/gravedigger/hivemind and the ideal finisher of a massive medium dig or targeted agenda snipe.

The corp "shifting priorities" is less of a threat if the three threats are milling (which is hard to counter), chakanas (which can't effectively be purged once the combo's running) and a massively boosted darwin appearing out of nowhere for 2-3 critical runs.

As was also noted earlier, in competitive settings this deck does make minor runs to apply pressure while setting up and then makes the critical runs with hivemind/Darwin.

The primogeniture is vital to resist purges. Virus breeding grounds can only move counters to a virus that already has at least one counter. So if the corp purges when you have a hivemind and 2 breeding grounds out, you can just spend 2 clicks to restore the hivemind to 3 counters - reactivating the chakanas and leaving you 2 clicks ahead. If you can keep the hiveminds "at peak performance" every turn, then you can permanently greatly increase the advancement requirements of all the corp's agendas.

So far, this deck has been tried in a variety of casual and a few competitive settings with the general consensus being that it just needs a bit more draw and perhaps a slightly tweaked economy. It has the benefit of having a significantly more focused and debilitating combo than most other runner combo decks, but it'd definitely be interesting to hear your opinions after trying it.

On an unrelated note, I really like this line: "a giant ass-beast that is proverbially shitting in anyone's cereal". I might have to steal it :)

15 Feb 2015 xethebuilder

@Locke The gorman is always useful because it can give you credits equal to the number of counters on hivemind (without spending those counters) and provides a cheap mill, if nothing else. Also, most corp players don't make every single draw with Jackson Howard.

Also, if the corp scores a 5/3 like this: IA, AAA, Purge & Score, it's as if 3 chakanas were active anyways. They just saved themselves 3 credits by purging instead of advancing three more times. It still took them 3 turns to score the agenda, during which the runner could have been setting up for future attacks or trying to snipe it.

15 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@xethebuilder Ha. Glad you liked it! Thanks for the reply. I do, however, have to point out something about Daily Casts. When it comes to econ cards in this game, one should consider the fluid value of an action, which gives you a credit. To this end, Casts has a fluid cost of 4 and nets you 4 on top what you put, essentially 1 credit net gain each turn for 4 turns. You do not net 8 or 9 with Pawnshop-- this is simply not true whatsoever. You literally net the same value in clicking for credits 4 times.

I know many do not like the 'a click is a credit' philosophy in this game, but I think it is accurate, especially when it comes to cards that function as econ. I do think Casts has a place in decks, and most probably one like this--though Sahasrara does essentially the same thing in a more limited fashion for as long as its in play.

Lastly, I understand the function and idea behind Chakana. But the time it takes to set three up... I feel confident that two is more than enough, which would allow for some more program diversity.

15 Feb 2015 Locke

@xethebuilder No, If you use Hivemind for Gorman Drip you use those counters so it still makes Gorman ass because there goes the counters on Hivemind.

And Chakana is still ass. With only 1 Darwin in the deck you don't always have a way to attack them so its so easy for the corp to put 1 ETR Ice infront of an agenda and score it by advancing, passing the turn, then purging to score. Blue Sun decks murder this deck so bad its not even funny.. 3-4 turns in the game they have 25 to 30 credits and yah I'm sorry you cant fight that. Moving 2-3 counters off a Incubator to a 1-2 countered Darwin doesn't do shit. In the months to come I promise this deck isn't going to win any real big tourneys. Sure it wins now against idiots who have no understanding of the game.

15 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@Locke The Chakanas are kind of the point of the deck, as my self and a number of other people have argued. With the set up in place you are immune to purging, since it gives you a two click advantage. I can be persuaded that two might be enough, but not to to take them all out.

Btw I have gone forCache instead of Gorman for consistency; cache is great throughout the game, Gorman takes two clicks to deliver (one install, one trash) and also can't be aesoped, so it needs to deliver a heap to beat the cache 6 credits for a click. It also needs to be in place with hive mind or the corp needs to do a lot of work for you for it to get going.

@xethebuilder thanks for the awesome posts, you pretty much hit all the points I would have made. I think the other thing that is wrong to assume is that I'm precious about viruses once installed-you should cycle them for money aggressively since the only once a you need up all the time are chakana and hive mind. Everything else is at or less than 3 and so synergies well with Aesops and Deja Vu.

@travisrchance as already noted this is not a no run deck (my description makes a point on that in fact).

Aesops and casts are good primarily because they are "just in time"economy that still saves your clicks for installing. Casts is also a low cost threshold. However your point on lucky find is an interesting one and I agree you can probably drop one Chakana.

Id be worried about the draw performance or your deck without wyldsides but you would have no choice given the drop of Aesops. Earth rise might be an alternative.

I have already presented my argument about Gorman above-I have replaced it with more card draw for consistency. Again without Aesops it is more of an even case.

Scheherazade is limited by memory - without aesops to cycle it will at best give you four to five credits, and that's assuming you get it out early and the corp doesn't power shut down your ass. I know some fans of this deck are trying it out but I prefer using the slots I've freed up by dropping cyber feeder for more aggressive viruses like nerve agent and parasite which I agree is synergistic joy.

Would love to see your current deck as I worry from your reports that too many people are trying to play this deck as a no run version which is wrong. Maybe I can find a way to borrow some aggression! I will also post my latest version of the deck sometime since this one is still pretty passively built.

@Ringworm to answer your question trash everything not immediately useful to setting up your core or when you need cash-progens and Djinns and the viruses are all fair targets (Medium if you want to not run R&D for a while, etc). Hive Mind means you can always bring them back for equal strength!

15 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@Locke Gorman doesn't remove Hivemind counters bro. Check the wording on Gorman-counters are not spent when it is trashed, just the program.

The 3 Djinns can tutor for Darwin. You can get it whenever you need it.

You have 2xVBG to restore tokens on Chakana immediately after a purge, every single time. Incubators are for emergencies or big runs.

15 Feb 2015 travisrchance

Noise List ) link.

17 Feb 2015 Redwud

Oh my glob. This deck is amazing. My O&C box needs to get here right now so I can try this out.

19 Feb 2015 Redwud

Is there any possible way to work in a Levy AR Lab Access? I realize probably not given the influence spread, but if a game somehow ends up going long being able to get everything back might be a good idea. Or is the whole idea to not let the game get to the point where something like this is necessary?

I'm still relatively new to the game, if my question didn't make it blatantly obvious.

21 Feb 2015 narcow

@Redwud: The Corp will run out of cards or lose well before you need to Levy, don't worry.

22 Feb 2015 red5

I placed third at my local Store Championship using a variant of this deck. Unfortunately it only went 3 for 6, though had I successfully psi gamed I would have won another.

My list has the following changes:

-3 Day Job

-2 Cyberfeeder

-2 Grimoire

-3 Earthrise Hotel

-1 Gorman Drip v1

+2 Chop Bot 3000

+2 Vigil

+2 Liberated Account

+3 Wyldside

+2 Scheherazade

======================================

I'm not sure about Vigil in the list. I found that I rarely needed the extra memory, and it didn't trigger an extra draw often. I'm thinking about swapping them for Earthrise Hotels.

Chop Bot 3000 works well. Initially, it was just for extra influence-free ways to turn off Wyldside. I was able to get a ton of use off it, especially when Wyldside is late to show up.

23 Feb 2015 michellanger

HOLY FUCK, my belly hurts. THE LAUGHING.

"Or if you just can't be f*cked drop a Hades Shard and give them the finger as you pull all the agendas out and win the game."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, BEST. FUCKING. GUIDE. 11/10 WOULD READ AGAIN.

23 Feb 2015 fattyy2k

I am not a fan of chop bot through the playtesting I have done. DEFINITELY add in a single demo run. It has won me several games. With that, also add in nerve agent. The vigil has been awesome, giving me card draw and a small bit of memory which is hardly ever used. I used earthrise not wyldeside which does the trick. It honestly is a great deck but you have to really watch your opponent. It takes a lot to know what is one of the few runs you NEED to make. I am still in the edge about day job as it is situational.

23 Feb 2015 michellanger

@tyrellian have you considered using Sahasrara? Right now, about half the deck consists of programs, which could save you some money while putting down the parts of the combo. Also, it somewhat alligns with the clickless econ philosophy. Any thoughts?

24 Feb 2015 ADHiDef

LOVE THIS DECK! Thank you so much for sharing it and it has been very successful for me. I can't wait to try out Wyldside, but I also want to fully support the inclusion of D4v1d. Those power hungry SOB's over at Blue Sun love to use Oversight AI on Curtain Wall. After I snipe the first hurried agenda (thank you Chakana and Darwin), sadly just one rezzed Curtain Wall is enough to keep Darwin at bay. I'm really struggling to find a place for D4V1D, but its a must have against my now Blue Sun-filled meta.

25 Feb 2015 tyrellian

Wow! Thanks for all the awesome comments and variants, glad you guys are having so much fun with it!

@michellanger I had thought about Sahasrara but the influence limit would mean I'd only want one, and no way to tutor it makes it a little erratic to get. You are better off looking at Daily Casts for a shorter term version of the same, or going for big burst econ including the controversial Liberated Accounts.

Also, glad you enjoyed the description as much as I enjoyed writing it.

@ADHiDef Will post my latest build tonight which has found some room for 2xD4vid and everyone's favourite aggro friend, 2xParasite for a much more aggressive run deck.

And to @fattyy2k's suggestion, one Demo Run for the awesomeness of it when you have your multi-access configured.

@red5 gotta agreee with @fattyy2k, Chop Bot doesn't feel like it works hard enough for me to be worth a deck slot.

@Redwud as @narcow says, you won't probably need it, because once your rig is set up you don't actually need any more cards to ruin the corp's day; just keep the chokehold, charge up Darwin/credits and CLAIM VICTORY.

@fattyy2k I want to really emphasize what you said mate, as it's so crucial to understand. The thing I love most about this deck is it brings Netrunner back to core set old school mind games again - you can make these devastating runs with the deck but you need to know when to do it, and when to sit back and build/bide your time/watch your opponent so carefully. And yes, Day Jobs for me are too much of a tempo hit given your set up requirements. Liberated Accounts!

27 Feb 2015 ADHiDef

@tyrellian Looking forward to the latest build. Kudos to you for staying highly engaged in discussion. My store championship is coming up this Saturday, and I'm dead set on playing some form of this deck. Anyways, after some fiddling, I'm strongly considering Order of Sol to be a viable one-influence economy replacement for Gorman Drip v1.

I'm often down to zero credits, because I'm looking to install relevant viruses asap, and that automatic credit could really come in handy with Wyldside in play; like being able to install Cache from broke on last click just in time for Aesop's Pawnshop at the start of next turn. Thoughts?

28 Feb 2015 tyrellian

@ADHiDef Latest build posted in the description above mate. Best of luck in the competition! I like Order of Sol but as you can see I've spent my influence above on Clone Chips, which help for emergency Caches and make playing Parasite extremely rewarding (which synergizes with Hive). I've put in Liberated Accounts to help with the money struggles. I'd like Order of Sol more if there was a way for you to go broke during the Corp's turn too, as with Nasir Personal Workshop decks.

1 Mar 2015 michellanger

@tyrellian Could you explain the reason behin switching Earthrise Hotel for Wyldside? Is the 1 extra credit worth 1 less click? I know you can sell it through Aesop's later, but still

1 Mar 2015 tyrellian

Hi @michellanger great question and I think one that comes down to personal question. @ItJustGotRielle and I were debating it earlier on and for me the choice was consistency.

More likely than not you will need more draw than Earthrise can provide to build your combo, which means you will be clicking to draw anyway (and more inefficiently).

Also, if you let Earthrise exhaust before you can sell it, you lose all four credits, whereas Wyldside nets out at zero whenever you decide to liquidate it.

Given how tight credits are and how reliant you are on draw in this game it felt like the right way to go.

It basically comes down to how fast you think your deck can pull what it needs to get set up. Wyldside gives you more consistent draw and better credits at the cost of speed.

2 Mar 2015 TechnoZ

Glad to see how actively the comments are replied to on this deck! Kudos for being so helpful @tyrellian. This is a great deck, I have one question though. Say a FA deck biotic labor out a 3/2 agenda with 1 Etr ice protecting it, can't they purge virus counters the following turn for an insta score? Not to say that you couldn't beat this by Darwin smashing the server, just a small weakness that I think could be exploited.

3 Mar 2015 tyrellian

Hi @TechnoZ thanks!

That's a very viable way to play against the deck, but still results in a turn delay when scoring out agendas. You can use that time to either try to score that advanced card during your turn, or decide it could be a trap and instead keep milling cards.

The idea is that the deck makes fast advance and never advance strategies impossible to pull off. This, coupled with your milling strategy + medium digs means that when you do run you are seeing a much higher chance of pulling agendas.

3 Mar 2015 TechnoZ

Hey, after some more theory-decking and testing practice hands for this deck, I was wondering what your thoughts were on cutting Aesop from the deck altogether and using gormans > Cache, so that you can use the influence on cards that will make the deck more consistent, like more burst Econ and draw power. Not sure if this would hurt the deck much since I haven't played being Noise since the Genesis cycle, until now that is.

3 Mar 2015 casteffens

Played it twice today. Lost twice. First game, Progenitor never showed up. Second game, score was 6:3 when Progenitor finally appeared.

3 Mar 2015 tyrellian

Hi @casteffens - bad luck! I won 100% of my games tonight though so I guess we cancel out :). Which version of the deck did you try? I found that the new version (see description) gives you the ability to run more aggressively; and with Wyldside you get the consistency you need to get yourself set up if you need to dig deep for Progen, as I was mentioning to @michellanger.

@TechnoZ I've talked about Gorman vs. Cache before. I'm not really a fan given it's two clicks for the $$$ you get. 3 for Cache and 3 for Aesops next turn for a single click is pretty amazing. I particularly wouldn't want to lose it given the new edition of the deck (see below description) given it's a lot tighter on memory.

Aesops in the new deck also lets me use Wyldside and turn it off whenever I want for no net credit loss and squeeze some extra juice out of Daily Casts and programs I plan to install over anyway.

In my original deck you could probably look at swapping it out for another economic engine and Gorman - I'd be tempted by Diesel.

Suggest you try the new design of the deck in some competitive scenarios and remember that it is NOT a solitaire deck, nor is it an always run criminal deck. You need to be surgical but keep pressure on.

7 Mar 2015 michellanger

@tyrellian have you considered using Duggar's? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

8 Mar 2015 tyrellian

@michellanger Not really a fan. Duggar's is great when you need something NOW and are playing with a deck where you plan on tutoring from Archives or you want to brute force tutor silver bullets and don't mind losing the rest of your deck.

For me, every precious card in my deck is too valuable to just throw away, and I prefer to keep my heap recursion for D4v1D, Mediums and Cache.

Worst case Wyldside + the rest of my turn = 5 cards, and Duggar's is much more inflexible to give me 2x as many cards (automatic discard needed). Whatever I really need to build my board is either tutorable or 3x of; I just don't feel like I need to pull that much of my deck at once, and hate losing the whole turn to do it (that's also why I dropped the Day Jobs!).

11 Mar 2015 fattyy2k

With your newest iteration, what has your success rate been? I don't want to cut vigil out of mine, but adding in the d4v1ds is really tempting...

13 Mar 2015 tyrellian

Honestly @fattyy2k it was great at first but is faceplanting on cheap ETR ice decks that start advancing quickly before I can set up. Still don't think I've cracked it. Am looking at a version 3 with much more aggressive card draw and quick breakers to counter; stay tuned and I'll publish if it does well :)

Would love to get suggestions!

16 Mar 2015 Vapo

Thanks for the list! I took the basic Hivemind/Progenitor/Breeding Ground/Chakana framework and adapted it to Valencia and am finding it really solid. Blackmail is such a crazy strong addition, if they try to rush before you're set up it's easy to punish them for it, and once Hivemind and Breeding Grounds are up, Blackmail + Nerve Agent/Medium runs usually win you the game in a very short space of time. I'm still fine tuning the mix of card draw/econ/combo/plan B(that is, actually having to deal with ice) in the deck but so far it's proved capable of taking on most things - took it to 2nd in a store champ at the weekend and it was only a suicidally stupid move in the final that stopped me taking the win.

By moving away from Noise I've been able to drop Aesops/Cache and switch to Kati/Data Folding/Daily Casts for econ, freeing up influence for an SMC and a couple of clone chips (combined with Inject) which really helps speed up putting the combo together.

Data Folding is definitely worth giving a go in Noise too, it's amazing just how little MU the deck uses as long as you're careful. I don't even run a console (originally had Grimoire but never found it necessary) and haven't had them turn off once yet, tho you do occasionally need to reinvest a bit of the profits in a 2nd Djinn to keep that going.

19 Mar 2015 citizenkeen

@tyrellian: Today's reddit [COTD] brings up a fantastic point - Power Shutdown. How do you deal with it, especially in your new run-more-build?

31 Mar 2015 Daevar

@citizenkeen Not tyrellian obviously, but if you're expecting the corp to play Power Shutdown, I've found it a viable route to just drop an extra Progenitor on the board. Naked. It hurt's tempo, but if it saves your combo it's surely worth it, it's better than to stop running altogether - and you can still sell it to Aesop's if need be/opportunity arises.

6 Apr 2015 tyrellian

@citizenkeen @Daevar is right - drop blank Progens to protect yourself, and sell it to Aesops so it's still a click for 3 credits if nothing happens.

@Vapo interesting stuff mate. I never thought of changing identities because a virus heavy deck was always the point, but especially in the new build which has only 12 viruses, maybe it's worth considering!

7 Apr 2015 Vapo

@tyrellian I ended up winning a 24 person SC with the Valencia version, so thanks a lot for the idea! The basic hive mind + breeding ground combo is so strong when you can follow it up with blackmail nerve agent/medium runs that I think I'm gonna keep working on that framework even post-clot when the Chakanas aren't so important

11 Jun 2015 Beta-Max

@tyrellianI love this deck concept, but there are a lot of changes in your "latest build" I saw a lot of suggestions scattered throughout this now massive thread, but I'd love to hear a more compiled "here's why" on some of the swaps, it feels like a subtle but definitive change in the play-style, without Grimoire, Hades Shard, etc. With Parasite and Demolition Run run around, it feels like you rebuilt it to have more Run capabilities...just having a bit of trouble figuring out some of the why's without the maker's brain

14 Jun 2015 tyrellian

Hi ``@Vapo` congratulations on your win - I actually saw your decklist before I saw this comment and was thinking it looked familiar! I agree with you that Valencia gives you the aggressive run pressure early on while you're setting up which can otherwise be this decks biggest problem. I agree that I've found the Chakana pressure (and Hive Mind synergies) create some great problems for the Corp that #slottheclot does not.

@Beta-Max You are correct; the changes were to drive a more aggressive early game Noise build. I love Noise but I feel that he is still optimal in a Virus Cycling build with Aesops + Cache and Shards (check out Pacer's deck) for a gloriously optimized version). Moving forward I am looping in at Valencia for the Chakana/HiveMind version. Space for all the toys, and Blackmail both makes runs efficient, threatens early Blackmail snaps and becomes really fun later when you Incubator trash a Hive Mind to boost your Medium and Blackmail in to R&D...and then you have no friends.

This might change once FFG gives me more viruses to play with - at this point I'll post the next insane deck design for you guys to enjoy!

14 Jul 2015 Windave

Man, I love this!

How about adjusted chronotype?

14 Jul 2015 tyrellian

@Windave Winners eat pancakes and go clubbing. 2x Adjusted Chronotype and 3x Wyldside are a good replacement for Earthrise. Street Peddler and I've Had Worse recommended to improve your set up speed.

Whupass 2.0 is a radically different design but keeps this as it's core draw and setup build.

14 Jul 2015 Windave

Amazing! What do you think about Fester? Im going to start testing this concept, maybe would be worth to have 1 Fester? Slow the corp a lil more

14 Jul 2015 tyrellian

@Windave My biggest problem has always been set up time with this deck. A good counter play against a lot of Noise decks (this one included) is to get yourself set up and fast advance quickly behind gear check ice. If your draws are perfect you can usually counter and have a great time, but if they're not you won't. Keeping your deck brutally consistent, versatile and fast is the secret to being an awesome Anarch.

Fester is an awesome card but it's "win more" for me and Noise is usually poor vs. Corps so 2 credit investment for a chance to punish 2 credits/wipe is so-so for me in terms of return. I prefer putting cards in Noise that create bigger swings and more disruption (because I'm a jerk like that).

If you are thinking of tweaking the design I'd suggest you do so in ways that improve consistency and set up time vs. add more toys. :)

As an example, I thought @Fjord had a pretty clever deck design that uses Personal Workshop to speed up his setup: netrunnerdb.com

14 Jul 2015 Windave

That's a nice deck! But it goes for the medium combo, I like your idea better since it has more things to do (like that rad chakana combo)

28 Jul 2015 Beta-Max

@tyrellian Just curious how the newest iteration of the deck is going in testing and when we'll get to see the newest Whupass?

5 Oct 2015 MidgardSerpent

@tyrellian Started running the original version listed on the left. Once I figured out the proper way to set up, I decked a corp for the first time ever. Super fun.

I feel like the Day Job's are just too expensive click wise, I need the money at the beginning but losing a full turn for 8 credits feels harsh. I swapped them out for Sure Gambles.

I played a bit with swapping out the Medium for a Hemorrhage and the Imp for a Trope.

That last bit worked particularly well, I just dropped it down pretty early and when it had about 7 or 8 tokens on it I just trashed it to put all the caches, all the deja vus and the Gorman back in my deck. Then the Cache-Mill train can just keep on rolling.

Out of the three games I won, I made exactly two runs. One rig-less on first turn in one game to put the Hades Shard down for free, and one in another game to snag a Oaktown Renovation that they were a turn off from scoring.

19 Oct 2015 Dagguh

GRNDL just advanced his agendas behind a single piece of ICE while I was trying to draw like crazy for the Darwin or a Djinn.

21 Oct 2015 tyrellian

@Dagguh 4 breakers (Djinn as tutor + Darwin) offer pretty amazing consistency, but bad draws happen. Also remember, this deck is not designed to be Tier 1, it's designed to be TIER FUN.

If you're just not getting luck, you've still got the mill out strategy to fall back on, or pressure wherever you think the other agendas are. Advancing out agendas with Chakana pressure are a considerable click/credit tax on Corps, even if you can't get in. Plus, if the rest of your rig is ready why don't you just Parasite the single piece of ICE (are you using the new deck in the description?).

@MidgardSerpent Trope is an excellent choice, but since it's power counters it doesn't make my heart sing with delicious virus synergies; but I like it a lot. I have stopped working on Can since everyone's running the Tier 1 Noise Faust decks now and I no longer feel like a special snowflake when I put him down on the table. I'm brewing other runners and Corps instead, but might come back to him a few cycles from now when he's the crazy choice once more.

23 Dec 2015 Orgodemir2

I haven't read all of the comments here because THERE ARE SO MANY! But I did read a few people point out Scheherazade as a possible inclusion. The most efficient way to use Scheherazade is to host all the things onto it (giving 1 Credit each). The problem with Scheherazade and other cards that host is when they are removed by any means, all cards and tokens they are hosting are also removed (straight from the rulebook). If you have everything hosted on Scheherazade and the Corp uses Power Shutdown at X = 0, then you have only two choices to trash: 1) Scheherazade or Progenitor. Both are hosting your Hivemind either indirectly or directly (respectively), so it will be lost no matter what (obviously you trash your Progenitor so you only lose Hivemind otherwise you lose your entire rig!). In which case, you better have Déjà Vus on hand or you have a very slow recovery ahead of you. I understand this is fairly niche and most likely not a concern unless you are up against any Weyland deck or any murder deck. But I don't think Scheherazade is worth a slot with such a potentially huge detrimental drawback to it (or any card for that matter). That being said, this is one of my favorite runner decks and definitely the best description EVER.

24 Dec 2015 lucelios

fu#$ yeah!!!!

20 Jul 2016 Genesys

Any chance of a post MWL 2 update!?

20 Jul 2016 exoasol

@CodeMarvelous we need a test run/derezzed of this deck